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Dead Hive

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:22 pm
by ohiohiker
Looking for help diagnosing a dead hive.

This hive was captured in June in a swarm trap. I checked them about a month ago and they seemed fine. My notes say that I found the queen, open brood, capped brood, pollen and nectar(nectar stores were light). Last inspection I didn't find any hive beetles, wax moths or mites. Today this is what I found. First thought was pesticides but the two hives beside it were fine. All the emerging bees had there tongues out. I could find no pollen stores or nectar. There were wax moth larvae but I think they were just taking advantage of the situation. My first inclination is that they starved. Any other thoughts?

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Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:09 pm
by GregV
ohiohiker wrote:Looking for help diagnosing a dead hive.
............ My first inclination is that they starved. Any other thoughts?


Starved in mid-August?
Not reasonable.
Even in a dearth situation now in Ohio/upper Midwest (I am in WI) should be enough income to sustain afloat.
Late bloom is already kicking up.
My bees are bringing tons of pollen and nectar as we speak (this, of course, is locality dependent).

I say - pesticide.
Keep in mind - every particular hive goes places independent of each other.
They not asking the other hives for advice, you know.
With that, entirely possible, that one hive found a poisoned field with bloom and got wiped out.
The other hives could missed that spot and survived - for now.

No stores can be explained by the same - poisoning.
All the foragers died off an mass.
No one is to bring forage. Young bees was what left.
They ate all the stores out (was not much, obviously) and died out too.

Pretty much outside of a massive and quick poisoning, I don't know what else could wipe out a hive mid-summer in such an efficient manner.
There are few toxic blooms that are known and may also kill bees. You can google on that.

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:26 am
by moebees
I'm wondering how long ago the previous inspection was? The bees on the bottom board look like they have been dead for some time. The dead emerging brood with tongues out would fit with PMS. No stores is not diagnostic because they were probably robbed.

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:09 am
by GregV
moebees wrote:I'm wondering how long ago the previous inspection was? The bees on the bottom board look like they have been dead for some time. The dead emerging brood with tongues out would fit with PMS. No stores is not diagnostic because they were probably robbed.


PMS in mid-August and so abrupt?
Keep in mind - this is a fresh June swarm that went through a brood break too.
Mites should not be an issue yet, if at all.
Doubt it.

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:38 am
by moebees
PMS in mid-August and so abrupt?
Keep in mind - this is a fresh June swarm that went through a brood break too.
Mites should not be an issue yet, if at all.
Doubt it.


We don't know how abrupt it was because from the op's description and the pictures posted it seems that he apparently hadn't inspected often. That is why i asked the question.

So you know the pedigree of this swarm? What the mite load was of the hive it came from? The virus load.

Not all losses from PMS occur in winter. There are losses at other times of the year as well. I don't know that is what killed this hive. I only suggested that one of the few clues provided by the op is consistent with that cause.

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:22 pm
by GregV
Look, neither I or you know much about this case.
Hence, I operate by statistical likelihoods for something to happen, not by facts.

What I do know is early-August in upper Midwest is a bit too early to for the mite load to dangerously peak just yet, *in general* (and PMS, consequently, also). This is common knowledge of how mite/bee populations interrelate.

If the incident took place in September/October/later, then PMS case would be more likely indeed.
But for now PMS is less likely I feel (especially, because the incident itself took place in late July/early August).
Especially, given the fresh swarm situation - which in itself should be a mitigating factor also

See picture attached (one of many similar pics freely available).
MiteLoadTrend.jpg
MiteLoadTrend.jpg (101.33 KiB) Viewed 1154 times

From:
http://www.beeculture.com/the-four-pill ... agement-2/

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:49 pm
by moebees
Hence, I operate by statistical likelihoods for something to happen, not by facts.


BRILLIANT!

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:20 pm
by GregV
moebees wrote:
Hence, I operate by statistical likelihoods for something to happen, not by facts.


BRILLIANT!


In order to have facts you should go on site directly and investigate.
Until then, it is all interpretations based on probabilities of this and that.
But fine, I take "brilliant" as a compliment. Getting used to this.

Re: Dead Hive

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:33 pm
by Dustymunky
Yup. I doubt you have ever been wrong Greg ;)


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