What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Basic beekeeping, this is beekeeping after the first winter until about the third or fourth year. You are a beekeeper, but you still have a lot to learn. Talk about normal everyday beekeeping here.
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GregV
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:24 pm

SiWolKe wrote:... Behaviours of animals and the impact on environment can change if we shift them to other locations and this can be dangerous.
No offense meant, Greg. ;)


Well, but you see by saying exactly this you imply that even harmless animal may turn into a monster if placed into conditions that trigger such behaviors. So I can say, sounds as if your own bees are plenty dangerous and you still keep them. :D

From my past we had incidents where bees turned dangerous (similar to what Jeff had; if in USA and now - we'd get sued, probably). But the trigger was - attempting to harvest honey during dry and hot, late summer dearth. By doing this we kind of pushed the bees into a corner. They instinctively knew they would have no chance to winter if robbed of their reserves just before the fall (no more significant flows left ahead). Until then, those bees were reasonably harmless if just left alone.

My experiences, however, come from Northern European bee beekeeping and bad behaviors were pretty predictable (basically - tit for tat).
If AHB is involved in some way - that may change the dynamics in some ways that better are avoided.
But even this you don't know ahead of time. I think it is reasonable to try a wide variety of lines and just watch them closely (say at the nuc level; nucs are just safer). IF some of them tend to become liability - terminate those.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:27 pm

GregV wrote:
Well, but you see by saying exactly this you imply that even harmless animal may turn into a monster if placed into conditions that trigger such behaviors. So I can say, sounds as if your own bees are plenty dangerous and you still keep them. :D

From my past we had incidents where bees turned dangerous (similar to what Jeff had; if in USA and now - we'd get sued, probably). But the trigger was - attempting to harvest honey during dry and hot, late summer dearth. By doing this we kind of pushed the bees into a corner. They instinctively knew they would have no chance to winter if robbed of their reserves just before the fall (no more significant flows left ahead). Until then, those bees were reasonably harmless if just left alone.


Mine are not dangerous at the entrance boards, only with opening. You can walk around without protection.
And they do not attack as a whole hive, only 20-30 or less.
You can´t compare them with africanized bees.

It´s true, there are situations when bees are stressed. Being queenless, being exploited, weather, predators around.... Every queen has some different traits and in Nordalks case the defense pheromones seem to have a leading role.
If I had a queen which acts like that every time I`m near, I would not keep her. The other genes are not lost, breeding from her.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:43 pm

SiWolKe wrote:It´s true, there are situations when bees are stressed. Being queenless, being exploited, weather, predators around.... Every queen has some different traits and in Nordalks case the defense pheromones seem to have a leading role.
If I had a queen which acts like that every time I`m near, I would not keep her. The other genes are not lost, breeding from her.


I suppose it is time to define what a "hot bee" actually is.

What I meant by "hot bee" - the bee that will attack and try to sting at above average rates when the hive is disturbed.
This is a very important distinction.
As long as I don't disturb them - no issue exists.
This is controllable "hotness" and I want it as long as it also means TF and low maintenance.
Nothing wrong with controllable "hotness" if managed properly (remote yards; harvest honey in very late fall when bees already cluster; horizontal hives where you do not disturb the nest/cluster when harvesting; etc).

I do NOT want "hotness" when bees randomly attack for no justified reason.
This becomes uncontrollable "hotness" and is a liability (TF or not TF - not important anymore if people/pets get injured or worse).
Uncontrollable "hotness" must be terminated.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:07 pm

Greg, I have one hive just as you describe. They are on the "hot" side when in the hive, but don't bother anyone in the yard. They are my top honey producers so I tolerate it. They have good days also where they are less bothered by my intrusion. I can work with such bees.

Happy to say our yard is back to normal by all appearances. That's one hive I'm glad is gone. Like lharder stated, and mentioned in a conversation with a friend, I'm putting a halt to introducing outside genetics for now. I have a feeling that was perhaps the cause of this incident. I want to make it very clear that the Anarchy queen is a sweetheart hive. Awesome bees. Again, just as likely it could have been some bad boy drones that caused this. I can on my part at least eliminate one of those possibilities by halting the import of outside genetics. I'm just relieved things seem back to normal.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:01 pm

Nordak wrote:Greg, I have one hive just as you describe. ......... I'm just relieved things seem back to normal.


Right. Controllable bees on a "hot" side could totally be keepers and a good bet for going TF.

So, Jeff, technically speaking, how exactly did you terminate the "monsters"?
Did you, like, dunk entire frames into a soapy tub?
I just never done this myself before; remember of reading about gassing them with sulfur smoke (should be non-toxic post-termination).
(I have seen one youtube about soapy water method but it looked like a major hassle)

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:51 pm

I bought a tub to dunk hive and all. Got everything ready, picked the hive up and after setting it in there, realized it was too small. Undeterred, I grabbed the now partially stuck in tub hive and walked the 50 yards to the pop up pool and held it underwater for a minute. Brought it out and dunked the remainder of the hive with 5 gallons of soapy water for good measure. Took 5 stings to the palm, but it was worth it. It would have made a great beekeeper blooper reel. All of this was done at night of course.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:19 am

Interesting!

I thought you would let them supersede, Jeff.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:56 am

No, they were fierce, Sibylle. A true danger. Could not risk it. I want to make it clear that this was not a normal circumstance. It could have easily gotten out of hand. I have dealt with what many would call "hot" bees, but these bees were a different scenario altogether. I think it's a case of "you had to be there." Trust me when I say it was the right decision.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:05 am

Nordak wrote:No, they were fierce, Sibylle. A true danger. Could not risk it. I want to make it clear that this was not a normal circumstance. It could have easily gotten out of hand. I have dealt with what many would call "hot" bees, but these bees were a different scenario altogether. I think it's a case of "you had to be there." Trust me when I say it was the right decision.


Oh, I trust your decisions entirely, Jeff :) that was no criticism. Just interest!
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:52 pm

moebees wrote:
Yes its a decent day today and I'm going out with a bunch of boxes, bottom boards, top covers to see who needs more room and who is strong enough to go into big boxes. I have some boomers and have some decent weather, so will be busy the next while.


Update us on what you find. :)


At that site I have 16 colony positions on 4 pallets.

A couple of colonies got extra boxes, one because it needed it, the other because I had it. 3 colonies got transferred into big boxes bringing the total to 9 in big boxes. The rest of the hive positions have nucs or double nucs. A few spares to take to another site soon. The smaller clusters are taking their time getting going, but once they reach critical mass they take off. I will be going out again with more boxes mid week.

I'm taking a couple of nucs from my back yard to a customers yard. Not to sell as they weren't the best coming out of winter and had to shake some nurse bees into them to get them going. I'm going to put them in a side by side square dadent set up and hope to get some honey out of them. Meanwhile I'm going to sell a spring nuc to the customer with a daughter from my best queen. So they get a few bees on their property (they can't wait) while they are waiting, I will get a honey crop hopefully (good spot) while mentoring them through their first season. The plan for him is to start off with a nuc, then buy a couple more queens from me in late june and start a few nucs to overwinter.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:09 pm

lharder wrote:

I'm taking a couple of nucs from my back yard to a customers yard. Not to sell as they weren't the best coming out of winter and had to shake some nurse bees into them to get them going. I'm going to put them in a side by side square dadent set up and hope to get some honey out of them. Meanwhile I'm going to sell a spring nuc to the customer with a daughter from my best queen. So they get a few bees on their property (they can't wait) while they are waiting, I will get a honey crop hopefully (good spot) while mentoring them through their first season. The plan for him is to start off with a nuc, then buy a couple more queens from me in late june and start a few nucs to overwinter.


Very cool :)
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:41 pm

I'm taking a couple of nucs from my back yard to a customers yard. Not to sell as they weren't the best coming out of winter and had to shake some nurse bees into them to get them going. I'm going to put them in a side by side square dadent set up and hope to get some honey out of them. Meanwhile I'm going to sell a spring nuc to the customer with a daughter from my best queen. So they get a few bees on their property (they can't wait) while they are waiting, I will get a honey crop hopefully (good spot) while mentoring them through their first season. The plan for him is to start off with a nuc, then buy a couple more queens from me in late june and start a few nucs to overwinter.


That's a great example of community based beekeeping. Strength in numbers. Looking forward to hearing more.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:45 pm

I had another customer come by to look at bees. I didn't really know her so I invited her to come over and have a look to give her some confidence in the process.

She had bees before and has taken courses and had a good base of knowledge. She was really impressed, not only with the bees, but with my wacky beekeeping methods. She has never encountered many of the concepts I talked about. I guess I do go on. Anyway she is excited to get bees from me and even put a deposit on them:) So lets hope my prize hive doesn't swarm. They are starting to pack some nectar in so I better reverse and maybe add another box above the brood. She is already in 5 medium boxes.

Meanwhile I'm building boxes. This year's experiment a side by side 2 queen system with square dadant supers over them. I can't help myself.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:42 pm

lharder wrote: I can't help myself.


:D

Maybe I also have a cool tf co-worker now, a new member of Viva lives nearby, 6 miles, and he is tf for three years , using warré and local mutts.
He had started with three hives but now has only one survivor, but the problem were some management mistakes with feeding.

He wants to expand and will buy some local colonies and use two bee yards. The survivor colony, he tells me, has an exciting behaviour. He claims the bees use propolis so the mites get stucked. I met him today and he is honest, I think. He will monitor his hive and try to take pictures.
They propolised the entrance to a one bee space and the mites on bees got stucked. He saw this in the interior too. Mites stuck on propolis.
I hope this is true, this would be a colony to use for breeding.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:03 pm

Lharder wrote:

I'm taking a couple of nucs from my back yard to a customers yard. Not to sell as they weren't the best coming out of winter and had to shake some nurse bees into them to get them going. I'm going to put them in a side by side square dadent set up and hope to get some honey out of them. Meanwhile I'm going to sell a spring nuc to the customer with a daughter from my best queen. So they get a few bees on their property (they can't wait) while they are waiting, I will get a honey crop hopefully (good spot) while mentoring them through their first season. The plan for him is to start off with a nuc, then buy a couple more queens from me in late june and start a few nucs to overwinter.


Do you see any problem with having your hives on a property where the owner has bees too? I may have a situation like that and I am a littler concerned about clashing beekeeping styles and competition with someone I am paying hive rental too. If the landowner wants to treat and I am tf for example. If the landowners hive dies from Varroa will he blame me? Perhaps you have a different perspective and I am over thinking it?
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:25 am

3 traps out...
10-20? to go. The real issue is time.

Tonight I should have been planting carrots and the like.
Instead, I spent the evening cleaning my latest acquisition - a log hive.

This weekend I scored an odd hive (pic). Sort of an man-made log it is.
Six ~20 liter sections. 5 deep Lang frames fit vertically just right.
It is really, really well used and will make excellent traps (more traps!!)
I may make two 60 liter traps or three 40 liter traps.
Or maybe I make one of each and keep a spare section on hand.

I am also thinking (after getting bees into this log-thing) to keep it around as a no-maintenance swarm generator.
Fun! I always wanted a log hive and thought of making one. And now this.
All need to do just a couple of top covers and bottoms. Got me a log hive.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:20 pm

moebees wrote:Lharder wrote:

I'm taking a couple of nucs from my back yard to a customers yard. Not to sell as they weren't the best coming out of winter and had to shake some nurse bees into them to get them going. I'm going to put them in a side by side square dadent set up and hope to get some honey out of them. Meanwhile I'm going to sell a spring nuc to the customer with a daughter from my best queen. So they get a few bees on their property (they can't wait) while they are waiting, I will get a honey crop hopefully (good spot) while mentoring them through their first season. The plan for him is to start off with a nuc, then buy a couple more queens from me in late june and start a few nucs to overwinter.


Do you see any problem with having your hives on a property where the owner has bees too? I may have a situation like that and I am a littler concerned about clashing beekeeping styles and competition with someone I am paying hive rental too. If the landowner wants to treat and I am tf for example. If the landowners hive dies from Varroa will he blame me? Perhaps you have a different perspective and I am over thinking it?


I'll be putting robber screens on mine, suggest it for him after the flow and I'll explain the reasons why. It will be a eyes wide open explanation of the risks of TF. I don't mind if he treats himself. He had a bad experience with a hive that died mid summer from another supplier, so he knows bees die. I'm teaching him to make increase with bought queens so hopefully he will be set up with tough bees and will be taught that he should make his own queens each year and to have extra bees on hand. Nobody gets taught that around here.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:26 pm

SiWolKe wrote:
lharder wrote: I can't help myself.


:D

Maybe I also have a cool tf co-worker now, a new member of Viva lives nearby, 6 miles, and he is tf for three years , using warré and local mutts.
He had started with three hives but now has only one survivor, but the problem were some management mistakes with feeding.

He wants to expand and will buy some local colonies and use two bee yards. The survivor colony, he tells me, has an exciting behaviour. He claims the bees use propolis so the mites get stucked. I met him today and he is honest, I think. He will monitor his hive and try to take pictures.
They propolised the entrance to a one bee space and the mites on bees got stucked. He saw this in the interior too. Mites stuck on propolis.
I hope this is true, this would be a colony to use for breeding.


Yes if a poll was taken of % of hive loss vs years experience, I'm sure it would show us beginners taking the brunt. Most TF keepers are new, so inexperience is surely part of the explanation for hive losses.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:10 am

Two days ago I checked my hives.
Conditions change so fast, it`s amazing.

The strongest colony is struggling. They are the robbers and now have all the mites that survived on the deadouts.
No dwindling yet, but propolis quality changes to sticky and the brood nests are looking shotgun.
This Bees are aggressive, but this could also be the food situation, since it´s snowing again today and they are sensitive to the food situation.
Got stung once.

The neighbor colony explodes and I saw cells with blue-eyed pupae cleaned of mites.
I changed my attitude and will probably use this hive to breed some queens in one or two weeks, I don´t want a fighting hive to be used and I don´t know if I have to do some IPM like brood culling.

My other bee yard, the elgon and carnis are thriving and acting very relaxed. The new elgon F2 hive ( they superseded the F1 with eggs from that queen) do VSH, opened cells with blue- and white eyed pupae, too. Very good this time of year. Fighting right from the start.

The carni hive has zero mites. It´s the one which had no queen last year for three months and survived because I donated one brood comb every time they lost their queen on mating flight. In august, when the new queen started, she layed 5 frames dadant in one day of which 3 were nursed because of low bee density. I saw them doing VSH and donated a capped brood comb for them then to have more winter bees.

The food situation makes the first colonies in my area kill their drones. Mine still have them because I checked the food in march and donated food combs.

Yesterday I drove 300 miles to learn about grafting with the help of my new mentor and maybe I will try that, too, plus miller method.
Friends want to have one or two queens from my colonies.

He tells me that my swarm bait hives are in vain if I want to catch my own swarms. This will only bait foreign swarms because mine will leave the area to maintain genetic diversity because the instincts of bees tell them to do this.
I have to be at home when the swarm leaves the hive and catch them immediately.
Since I have only outyards and have an industry job to do, I can´t do that.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:44 pm

SiWolKe wrote:He tells me that my swarm bait hives are in vain if I want to catch my own swarms. This will only bait foreign swarms because mine will leave the area to maintain genetic diversity because the instincts of bees tell them to do this..


I would ignore this advice and still install interceptor swarm traps about your own yard.
This is because you have nothing to lose.

I know first hand that bees do move into empty bee hives right next to the swarming hive.
The swarm moves virtually 5-10 meters from the mother hive.
Now - this is not 100% guaranty, but is very significantly probable.
Just like people - some kids prefer to move far; some kids prefer to stay close by.

If you score a foreign swarm into your trap, what is wrong with that either?
Keep it as-is and watch. Re-queen it to your own stock if prefer.
At the very least they will build up your inventory of comb and may generate honey harvest.

For sure - if you have no swarm traps installed, you have a near zero chance of attracting a swarm. :)

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:13 pm

As a general rule, most critters bees included have a dispersal stage as part of reproduction. As a rule, they do leave, but as usual in biology, its messy. Just like queens in general fly further than drones but not always. I guess it depends what scout bees find further afield. If they find nothing, maybe they take what is available.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:16 pm

I´m not able to take a foreign swarm, even when there is one. People here prevent swarming.
I need a new location for a swarm of domesticated bees and immediately would have to treat them.
They will infest my bee yards with mites because in swarming season the swarms have many mites, peak is at june before treatments will be done.

I rather have my own mites.

And there are no ferals.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:03 pm

lharder wrote:As a general rule, most critters bees included have a dispersal stage as part of reproduction. As a rule, they do leave, but as usual in biology, its messy. Just like queens in general fly further than drones but not always. I guess it depends what scout bees find further afield. If they find nothing, maybe they take what is available.


But also age of the queen matters.
Youngsters (especially in fall) are more flighty.
Oldies, on the other hand, might as well prefer an empty hive 10 meters away.
I know - they say opinion of the queen does not matter and only bees decide.
In practice - maybe it does matter (them old pheromones!).
The bees do know their old queen may not be fit enough to travel miles and miles into the unknown.
They do know. They smell it.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:08 pm

SiWolKe wrote:I´m not able to take a foreign swarm, even when there is one. People here prevent swarming.
I need a new location for a swarm of domesticated bees and immediately would have to treat them.
They will infest my bee yards with mites because in swarming season the swarms have many mites, peak is at june before treatments will be done.

I rather have my own mites.

And there are no ferals.


And so all of what you say means - setup a trap and catch your own bees.
No feral swarms to speak of; no domesticated swarms (they are prevented).
All you have left is to catch your own swarms. :D

Anyway, I will just keep doing what I am doing - chasing swarms. Any swarms.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:23 pm

Anyone here who maintains a thriving beeyard without filling the gaps with swarms?
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:05 pm

SiWolKe wrote:Anyone here who maintains a thriving beeyard without filling the gaps with swarms?


As for me, the swarms are not really about filling the gaps (I do that for now just because I refuse to buy bees).

The swarms are a good way have genetic diversity on hand and from that try to create some locally adapted variation of bees.
Just like the "Russian" bees got created from variety of imported stocks - randomly, and under mite pressure in the Far East.
The same way "Wisconsin" bees can be created just as well.
Swarms means - randomness, which is a good thing.
Swarms also usually come from strong mother hives - another good thing.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:12 pm

So tell me, Greg, what would you do without the possibility of catching feral swarms?

Would you have different stock from different parts of the country or would you try the weak treated mite infested local mutts and go cold turkey to have them all die on your hands?
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:35 pm

SiWolKe wrote:So tell me, Greg, what would you do without the possibility of catching feral swarms?

Would you have different stock from different parts of the country or would you try the weak treated mite infested local mutts and go cold turkey to have them all die on your hands?


This is exactly what SP has been doing.
Or what MB has been doing.
Notice - SP just recently is getting more serious about swarm trapping.
SP bought commercial packages at first and this is what he worked with.
SP, however, very heavily used the expansion model to run ahead of the mites. It works.

The thing to do is at first - you split and swarm, and split and swarm, and keep it fluid.
You do this to keep the bees ahead of mites.
Eventually, after few iterations there should be more resistant stock forming out of this.

But the more inputs into this mess - the better are chances for success.

BTW, even so called commercial stocks are only few generations away from the wild bees.
Left to randomness, they should pretty quickly regain the wild traits.
This is very similar to pigs, for example.
It only takes feral pigs very few generations to quickly start regaining back the traits of wild European boar (read about feral pigs in TX, USA).

In fact, forget pigs.
How about Aurochs?!!
Although the species was sadly hunted to its extinction in 1627, its genes are still very much alive today, however spread out over a number of cattle breeds. The aim of The Tauros Programme is to back-breed the closest relatives to the original Aurochs, and to build up viable wild populations of this impressive animal in several locations in Europe
https://www.rewildingeurope.com/tag/taurus-foundation

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Nordak
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Bteeyard?

Postby Nordak » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:57 pm

SiWolKe wrote:Anyone here who maintains a thriving beeyard without filling the gaps with swarms?


*raises hand*

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:36 am

GregV wrote:
SiWolKe wrote:So tell me, Greg, what would you do without the possibility of catching feral swarms?

Would you have different stock from different parts of the country or would you try the weak treated mite infested local mutts and go cold turkey to have them all die on your hands?


This is exactly what SP has been doing.
Or what MB has been doing.
Notice - SP just recently is getting more serious about swarm trapping.
SP bought commercial packages at first and this is what he worked with.
SP, however, very heavily used the expansion model to run ahead of the mites. It works.

The thing to do is at first - you split and swarm, and split and swarm, and keep it fluid.
You do this to keep the bees ahead of mites.
Eventually, after few iterations there should be more resistant stock forming out of this.

https://www.rewildingeurope.com/tag/taurus-foundation[/quote]

Did I get it wrong?
MB ( please correct me if I´m wrong) uses swarm catching to improve and stock his yard.
SP (please correct me if I´m wrong) had to start again after moving and uses ferals, too.

The taurus programme ended in a disaster. They let them starve. They lost many sponsors because of that.
Our civilized environment is not able to sustain auerochs except in east europe where some are once again set free.
http://www.suedkurier.de/region/kreis-k ... 55,3756856
this is my hometown where the rewildering took place

Why do you think Pantruten or other europeans are not posting here?
They have 100% losses, sometimes the second time doing the hard bond expansion model.

So we have to try again and again finding a path. Without a prominent example to show us it works under our circumstances and without sympathy, being judged as losers from all sides or being assessed as bad keepers.
Civility is strength. http://www.VivaBiene.de

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Nordak
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:36 pm

being judged as losers from all sides or being assessed as bad keepers.


Who is doing that to you?

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:13 pm

Nordak wrote:
being judged as losers from all sides or being assessed as bad keepers.


Who is doing that to you?


Well, to be sure - as soon as I exposed myself in the local group as trying it the TF-way, I received comments as if I would be a "mite bomb" generator. So some heckling, in fact, is taking place. Fortunately for me, in our local group we have very vocal and influential TF advocates as well (it is a good feeling when someone is standing up for you publicly).

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:31 pm

SiWolKe wrote:
The taurus programme ended in a disaster. They let them starve. They lost many sponsors because of that.
Our civilized environment is not able to sustain auerochs except in east europe where some are once again set free.
http://www.suedkurier.de/region/kreis-k ... 55,3756856
this is my hometown where the rewildering took place.


Unsure the "taurus programme" ended in disaster. They are very much alive per the Google.
Surely, they have setbacks and will continue have setbacks but as long as they learn and move forward, they can succeed.
Few more cows will die of starvation - that is given (though, this will feed even more media hysteria and some public will start crying of those poor cows, unfortunately). One issue is tendency of modern media to generate hysteria over insignificant things (while ignoring much more significant things just as well - hypocritically).

Look, I personally participated in annual pig/poultry slaughter since I was a child - this is how we got our home-grown meat.
Some gore and guts are a part of it all.
Fresh blood cooked with onions and salt/pepper is delicious.
For some, I look like a murderer.

All in all, I would not use a word "disaster".
They simply need to do this thing in other places away from the "civilized environment" and away from too much coverage and stick to doing it.
Last edited by GregV on Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:43 pm

SiWolKe wrote:Without a prominent example to show us it works under our circumstances and without sympathy, being judged as losers from all sides or being assessed as bad keepers.


I am a little bit confused.
SP/MB cases are not examples?
Am I here the one being misled into the wrong idea that SP/MB have it working?
Pretty sure SP/MB are a good example.
Jeff right here and now is doing successfully, I believe.
Lharder doing TF (yes/no?).

Anyway, I am yet to try it for myself and to be consistently successful at it.
I am just a tester of these TF ideas but I believe TF should work.
If I am wasting my time on the TF ideas here and low-maintenance beekeeping is a myth, I better quickly switch back to my other pet projects - apples and potatoes. :D

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Bteeyard?

Postby lharder » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:02 pm

Nordak wrote:
SiWolKe wrote:Anyone here who maintains a thriving beeyard without filling the gaps with swarms?


*raises hand*


I had a couple swarm traps up last year with no success. I just dismantled them because I needed the bottom board and top cover. I guess I should put a few up anyway.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:04 pm

GregV wrote:
lharder wrote:As a general rule, most critters bees included have a dispersal stage as part of reproduction. As a rule, they do leave, but as usual in biology, its messy. Just like queens in general fly further than drones but not always. I guess it depends what scout bees find further afield. If they find nothing, maybe they take what is available.


But also age of the queen matters.
Youngsters (especially in fall) are more flighty.
Oldies, on the other hand, might as well prefer an empty hive 10 meters away.
I know - they say opinion of the queen does not matter and only bees decide.
In practice - maybe it does matter (them old pheromones!).
The bees do know their old queen may not be fit enough to travel miles and miles into the unknown.
They do know. They smell it.


yes, and if the queen is too far down then supercedure. Biology has flexibility built into it.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:10 pm

Look, I personally participated in annual pig/poultry slaughter since I was a child - this is how we got our home-grown meat.
Some gore and guts are a part of it all.
Fresh blood cooked with onions and salt/pepper is delicious.
For some, I look like a murderer.


I was brought up to slaughter animals and have killed hundreds of them in my misspent youth. It is a completely unnecessary and disgusting thing I am ashamed of. Just because your parents taught you to do something does not mean it is right. Part of growing up is learning that much of what we learn from our elders turns out to be bull shit. But we are way off topic so lets get back to the bee yard.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:12 pm

lharder wrote:yes, and if the queen is too far down then supercedure. Biology has flexibility built into it.

Right.
With that, to state that the swarms *always* fly away and ignore available dwelling just near the mother hive is not accurate.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:14 pm

moebees wrote:.... so lets get back to the bee yard.


Let us get back to the bees - agreed.

So yes, be ready to be accused of being a "mite bomb" generator. Just how it is. :D

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Thu Apr 27, 2017 3:17 pm

Its funny how too much regulation has painted biology into a corner. If one is too efficient about removing feral bees and treating, then nature has no way of finding a way through. I'm sure bad technique, inefficient treatment, lack of oversight has contributed to pockets of better bees in North America.


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