What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Basic beekeeping, this is beekeeping after the first winter until about the third or fourth year. You are a beekeeper, but you still have a lot to learn. Talk about normal everyday beekeeping here.
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Nordak
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:08 pm

Shipping would be $20. That's a standard rate for USPS Express shipping. Resistance level? That's a good question. I have had 0 issues with varroa for the most part going on 4 years. I've lost one hive in those 4 years, just this year, due to starvation. I'm unsure what part of that is resistance related or just luck regarding viral strains/environmental factors. If you're interested, PM me. Just offering in case anyone is struggling and needs proven (in my area) bees. Considering I just now pinched the queen, you're looking at a month earliest availability. PM and I'll set it up on a first come first serve basis. Probably won't be more than 4-5 available. If someone wants more than one, let me know and shipping would be the same rate.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:43 pm

Check on my two packages installed 3 days ago. Queen was out in one and I released the other. Both have taken a quart of syrup and are drawing out the pf100 frames. Looking good so far.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:48 pm

Excellent, moe.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:55 pm

Installed 4 packages of Carnis today and got stung 3 times. I thought Carnis are supposed to be gentle. I have never been stung by packages before. Anyway, all went well and I have 6 hives starting the year. We are finally getting nice weather and blossoms are appearing.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:48 am

Sounds like your beekeeping adventure is off to a good start. Awesome, moe.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:31 pm

moebees wrote:Installed 4 packages of Carnis today and got stung 3 times. I thought Carnis are supposed to be gentle..

You hope you got Carnies. :D
A sting per a package - not bad, actually.
They got you through your suit?
How bad was the weather when you did this?
Even gentle bees may get defensive at the wrong place and day. Just like people.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:56 pm

Not as bad as when I knocked a nuc over when I was installing ant proof stands. I was wearing a veil and work gloves, didn't have a bee suit with me, so quickly stacked them back up (they were in 3 levels.) Don't know how many times I got stung, but I had to sit down for a while after. Still haven't checked that hive to make sure they are queen right.

So I have my first drones walking around, even if they aren't flying. Queen rearing is around the corner. Now if only the weather would improve. Spring is very slow coming with iffy flying weather.

Have a few weak nucs that I am building up as well. Not strong enough for frames of brood, so I put frames of brood in a box over an excluder over my strongest hive in the yard. I can give the weak nucs a shake of nurse bees every few days until they start gaining momentum. I've also had to do a combine of a weak queen right nuc with a strong queenless nuc. Gave that one a frame of open brood in case they were laying worker. Haven't checked the result yet.

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Nordak
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:13 pm

lharder wrote:Not as bad as when I knocked a nuc over when I was installing ant proof stands. I was wearing a veil and work gloves, didn't have a bee suit with me, so quickly stacked them back up (they were in 3 levels.) Don't know how many times I got stung, but I had to sit down for a while after. Still haven't checked that hive to make sure they are queen right.

So I have my first drones walking around, even if they aren't flying


Gotta love those "uh oh" moments. The beauty in them is that everytime they happen, the bees immediately show you how to become a kinder, gentler beekeeper.

Sounds like your bees are starting to ramp up a bit in anticipation of things to come. Exciting times await.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:07 pm

lharder wrote:Not as bad as when I knocked a nuc over when I was installing ant proof stands....

Imagine the kindest ever Grandma when you stomp over her flowers. Dude...... not a pretty picture.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:40 pm

You hope you got Carnies. :D


Yes I hope so.
A sting per a package - not bad, actually.


I have never been stung installing a package.

They got you through your suit?

Was not wearing anything for the first. That is how I have always done it. Not anymore. Got me on the ear so the next three I wore jacket and veil. The third one I was holding the package and had two sitting on the back of my hand. All of a sudden they started stinging. So I finished that one and headed for the truck to get gloves. I went to put the gloves on and looked at my hand. Oh... there are two stingers there I forgot to take out! What a dipstick.

How bad was the weather when you did this?


Weather was ideal. Sunny, no wind, about 65 degrees.

But on the bright side I got some stings in early in my beekeeping redux. I would hate to go a long time and the anticipation build and build. :lol:
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:26 pm

Nordak wrote:
lharder wrote:Not as bad as when I knocked a nuc over when I was installing ant proof stands. I was wearing a veil and work gloves, didn't have a bee suit with me, so quickly stacked them back up (they were in 3 levels.) Don't know how many times I got stung, but I had to sit down for a while after. Still haven't checked that hive to make sure they are queen right.

So I have my first drones walking around, even if they aren't flying


Gotta love those "uh oh" moments. The beauty in them is that everytime they happen, the bees immediately show you how to become a kinder, gentler beekeeper.

Sounds like your bees are starting to ramp up a bit in anticipation of things to come. Exciting times await.


It was going so good, I was jacking up the pallet by using a crow bar and stacks of wood. I had already installed the stands on the other pallets and was on my last leg. The pallet was at its most extreme angle, the hive was perpendicular to it, and the crow bar slipped.

Yes its a decent day today and I'm going out with a bunch of boxes, bottom boards, top covers to see who needs more room and who is strong enough to go into big boxes. I have some boomers and have some decent weather, so will be busy the next while.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Yes its a decent day today and I'm going out with a bunch of boxes, bottom boards, top covers to see who needs more room and who is strong enough to go into big boxes. I have some boomers and have some decent weather, so will be busy the next while.


Update us on what you find. :)
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:12 pm

The past few days I have notice several solitary bees checking out holes on my deck and near my garage. So this afternoon I drilled a bunch of holes in a 2 ft section of 4 x 4 I had laying around. So far they haven't looked at it but it hasn't been up long.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Dustymunky » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:57 pm

Got 3 nucs last week and did first inspection today. One hive has had way more activity than the other 2. I was worried there may have been some robbing. This was the same hive that had a supersedure cell. After inspection I saw that this hive was just booming. No more queen cells and excellent brood pattern. Weather is still pretty spotty here in Portland, OR. Temps barely getting to 60 Fahrenheit and rain often. This strong hive was Survivor stock from Old Sol.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:15 pm

That brood pattern is amazing. Some awesome bees you got there.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Imker Ingo » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:54 am

Moebees wrote:
" Was not wearing anything for the first. That is how I have always done it "

Moebees, that happens if you beekeep in your "birthday suit " :lol:
I have had 2 stings in the last week, they itched a bit.
Best wishes, Ingo.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:59 am

Moebees, that happens if you beekeep in your "birthday suit "


It's quite exhilarating. You should try it some time. :lol:
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:01 am

Looking good Dustymunky.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Dustymunky » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:28 am

Thx. Hope she keeps up the good work :)


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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:01 pm

Imker Ingo wrote:Moebees wrote:
" Was not wearing anything for the first. That is how I have always done it "

Moebees, that happens if you beekeep in your "birthday suit " :lol:
I have had 2 stings in the last week, they itched a bit.
Best wishes, Ingo.


I have seen youtube video of exactly that - beekeeping in the "birthday suit + undies".
They were testing the rating of the gentleness of some bee if I recall.
The video went well.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:06 pm

Dustymunky wrote:Got 3 nucs last week and did first inspection today. One hive has had way more activity than the other 2. I was worried there may have been some robbing. This was the same hive that had a supersedure cell. After inspection I saw that this hive was just booming. No more queen cells and excellent brood pattern. Weather is still pretty spotty here in Portland, OR. Temps barely getting to 60 Fahrenheit and rain often. This strong hive was Survivor stock from Old Sol.
IMG_2097.JPG
IMG_2097.JPG



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Isn't that nice to see. We have had not so great weather either so not so much flying weather yet. A few hours a day.

I still haven't haven't reboxed some nucs into full size hives. They have brood and are slowly building, but the temps aren't conducive for small hives. They seem to be perking along until things warm up. Some are gangbusters. Once they reach that critical mass... I've boosted some by shaking in nurse bees and they are starting to take off. I have 2nd year hives that are very strong already with boxes being added. Overall they seem to be using more food than they are bringing in still.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby moebees » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:16 pm

Gorgeous weather today and blooms popping everywhere. Checked the first two Italian packages today. Both have larva and one even had about 8 capped brood! I couldn't believe it. They had finished the 2 quarts of syrup each had so they are now off feed and on their own.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:18 pm

moebees wrote:Gorgeous weather today and blooms popping everywhere. Checked the first two Italian packages today. Both have larva and one even had about 8 capped brood! I couldn't believe it. They had finished the 2 quarts of syrup each had so they are now off feed and on their own.

Excellent. Looks like they are off to a great start.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:44 pm

Today I went into the mean hive I pinched the queen in to harvest cells/combine comb and bees with another hive to reduce them down hoping the size reduction would quell some of their defensiveness. Busted them up in addition to the combine into 3 mating nucs to further reduce size. I have never had bees act with such aggression. With ample smoke and a veil, I took 10+ stings just removing the first bar and giving it a shake. Went back into the house to get a suit. As I worked, I noticed they were attacking our yard dogs. Angry bees everywhere. It was a whole other level of defensiveness I am not used to seeing. Hopefully they will calm down soon because as of now no one can go in the yard without being attacked. Needless to say, my wife is unhappy with me right now and I can't really blame her. Hoping their behavior doesn't extend past our yard.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:19 am

Nordak wrote:Today I went into the mean hive I pinched the queen in to harvest cells/combine comb and bees with another hive to reduce them down hoping the size reduction would quell some of their defensiveness. Busted them up in addition to the combine into 3 mating nucs to further reduce size. I have never had bees act with such aggression. With ample smoke and a veil, I took 10+ stings just removing the first bar and giving it a shake. Went back into the house to get a suit. As I worked, I noticed they were attacking our yard dogs. Angry bees everywhere. It was a whole other level of defensiveness I am not used to seeing. Hopefully they will calm down soon because as of now no one can go in the yard without being attacked. Needless to say, my wife is unhappy with me right now and I can't really blame her. Hoping their behavior doesn't extend past our yard.

I observed similar events as a child.
Happened commonly when harvesting honey at a wrong time, with us and with near-by beeks as well.
You would not be able to go outside for 1-2 hours after the event.
They attacked dogs; they attacked passers by.
We kept our local Russians and, if I recall, some of the hives where much more mean than others.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:20 am

Nordak wrote:Today I went into the mean hive I pinched the queen in to harvest cells/combine comb and bees with another hive to reduce them down hoping the size reduction would quell some of their defensiveness.


This will do it probably. Which queen is it, Jeff? If you have no results do you shift to a Frost`s queen?
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:10 am

It is an Anarchy Apiaries daughter mated with the open population. Not sure if the aggression is a genetic attribute of the queen or she just mated with some super defensive drones. The original AA queen hive is very workable, no problems at all.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:13 pm

Nordak wrote:It is an Anarchy Apiaries daughter mated with the open population. Not sure if the aggression is a genetic attribute of the queen or she just mated with some super defensive drones. The original AA queen hive is very workable, no problems at all.


.... Results strongly suggest paternal effects of African origin increasing the defensive behavior of hybrid colonies.....

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15743904

With you being in Zone 7-8 area, presence of Africanized genetics in the air (when open pollinating new queens) is to be considered. Not much you can do about it.

Up here, in Zone 4-5, Africanized genetics get naturally filtered out due to more harsh winters (but not entirely). We here discussed recently that due to continuous package imports from down South we may just have percentage of our local bees having some Africanized genetics in them too. Fortunately, our climate should be naturally stopping the African genes from spreading too much.

But, like I said, just the northern bees alone could be super aggressive to the point of being unmanageable (in conventional, civilized sense).

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:24 pm

We have no africanized bees here in germany.
Still there is the possibility of a hot hive also ( I had one too) it is after supercedure or splitting the next generation mostly is gentle again.

My hot hive was not as bad as this:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrequeeninghot.htm

I wanted to pinch that queen but the bees did it themselves and raised a new one.

There are stress situations when a colony acts very defensive, but I think in Nordaks case this single queen`s pheromones work.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:13 pm

SiWolKe wrote:We have no africanized bees here in germany....

I actually would like to try some hot bees.
This is because in practice, the hot bees usually are the most productive and pest-resistant.
It maybe because some hidden, legacy genes are getting enabled again.
Hey, mild bees would not survive in the wild for long - they will get eaten very quickly.

This is with the clarifications that
1)I will want them on a remote yard - don't really care to get sued by neighbors (totally fair)
2)I will want to leave them alone after placing into my low-maintenance hive (deep horizontal with locking top bars should be good with the hot bee inspections - you never open the entire hive).

If they survive left alone - great. This should be workable material then.
If they die, I still get to keep the proceeds if they generate any.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:58 pm

GregV wrote:
SiWolKe wrote:We have no africanized bees here in germany....

I actually would like to try some hot bees.
This is because in practice, the hot bees usually are the most productive and pest-resistant.
It maybe because some hidden, legacy genes are getting enabled again.
Hey, mild bees would not survive in the wild for long - they will get eaten very quickly.

This is with the clarifications that
1)I will want them on a remote yard - don't really care to get sued by neighbors (totally fair)
2)I will want to leave them alone after placing into my low-maintenance hive (deep horizontal with locking top bars should be good with the hot bee inspections - you never open the entire hive).

If they survive left alone - great. This should be workable material then.
If they die, I still get to keep the proceeds if they generate any.


Be careful of posting this. Many people are afraid of bees and other stinging insects and I want people to tolerate bees.

The defensive drones will distribute the genes.

We have a law that your hives must be placed with 5m space to neighbors if you place them at home or, if your location is in a public area, you must put up a warning sign so people can avoid the hives if they want to. If this is not done you can be sued.

With my AMM descendants 5m is not enough if you open the hive and if they are in bad mood. So my place is behind a fence on private property with 200m to public traffic. They are not hot, just normal behavior, much less defensive than wasps or hornets if you disturb the nests.
But too much for those who regard them as livestock and want to cuddle with them. Its not possible to work them without good protection, veil, jacket, gloves. It´s nice that they don´t want to crawl into you trouser legs like the braunelle bees we have here ( another AMM breed).

I don´t want people to spray bees because they are attacked.

I believe defense against wild predators or pests is not comparable with defense against the beekeeper as owner . My bees know my smell and attack visitors in a ferocious way when they stand beside me while checking a hive.

I use different protection in my different bee yards. The smell of foreign bees change their behavior. The side effect is that I will not spread brood disease if I ever will have an AFB outbreak.

Not that I´m very much afraid of AFB, I believe the spores are in every hive, but I´m registered and if they find out I have AFB in my bee yard my hives are euthanized, even if I have only the spores and not the diseased brood. One colony is sufficient.
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:32 pm

It's highly doubtful these bees are products of AHB drones. We are still considered out of range for the most part. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but highly unlikely. If the day comes when I believe that's the case, I'll be closing up beekeeping shop as that's something I refuse to try and work with in my yard. The liability to my family and neighbors is not worth the risk.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:43 pm

Well, if the "hot" bees are placed out in the country AND proper signage is posted (to warm people to stay away) - I see no problem.
Fortunately, up here the true Africanized will not survive - they have very poor to none wintering traits.
Overly defensive northern hybrids may be worth a try, I think.

PS: I think I am very clear of not advocating defensive bees for the urban/suburban backyards.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:59 pm

[list=][/list]
GregV wrote:PS: I think I am very clear of not advocating defensive bees for the urban/suburban backyards.


I read it that way. I am ok with working with the bees you have in any given circumstance as long as they aren't posing a threat to the surroundings. I'm in an advantageous position as to where I don't have to put up with and won't put up with mean bees.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:32 pm

SiWolKe wrote:. My bees know my smell and attack visitors in a ferocious way .


I am in doubt bees know you by smell. :D
They are not smart enough to be like dogs.
Maybe you do have familiar to them smell on your beekeeping equipment.
That may be.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:38 pm

Nordak wrote:It's highly doubtful these bees are products of AHB drones..

Not likely.
But I am thinking it is possible to have an AFB package/swarm to be introduced into ANY(!) area and have it produce drones during the same season.
They are not likely to winter, but if warm season is long enough, they may manage to sustain just long enough to breed (especially since they do throw small swarms as a norm). The more South it is, the more this is likely to happen.

Just theorizing here, obviously.
I did not search for evidence to this theory.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby GregV » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:50 pm

GregV wrote:
Nordak wrote:It's highly doubtful these bees are products of AHB drones..

Not likely.
But I am thinking it is possible to have an AFB package/swarm to be introduced into ANY(!) area and have it produce drones during the same season.
They are not likely to winter, but if warm season is long enough, they may manage to sustain just long enough to breed (especially since they do throw small swarms as a norm). The more South it is, the more this is likely to happen.

Just theorizing here, obviously.
I did not search for evidence to this theory.


PS: just did google a bit - looks like North Carolina (zones 7-8) is officially bracing for AHBs.
Source: https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/africanize ... nd-control
Since the official institutions are very conservative in accepting anything as true, something must be up in NC.
Here in WI, our local DNR denied we had mountain lions for decades UNTIL the latest technology allowed residents to just post trail-cam pictures and show the "not existing" cats.

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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby Nordak » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:44 pm

Here in WI, our local DNR denied we had mountain lions for decades UNTIL the latest technology allowed residents to just post trail-cam pictures and show the "not existing" cats.


Arkansas Game and Fish has done the same thing. No one's fooled by the smoke screen. From my understanding, it was more for the protection of the mountain lion than it was for man.

Regarding AHB, I'd be lying if the thought hadn't crossed my mind regarding the current hive being discussed. There's really no way to prove it either way. In any case, they are as nearly intolerable today as they were yesterday, so unfortunately they are going to have to go. It doesn't give me any pleasure to do so, but these bees are quickly becoming a nuisance and I have nowhere else to place them far enough away from people and pets.

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SiWolKe
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby SiWolKe » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:27 am

GregV wrote:
SiWolKe wrote:. My bees know my smell and attack visitors in a ferocious way .


I am in doubt bees know you by smell. :D
They are not smart enough to be like dogs.
Maybe you do have familiar to them smell on your beekeeping equipment.
That may be.



Oh yes, they do! They are even smarter than dogs because dogs follow humans orders and bees do not :lol:

http://www.neurobiologie.fu-berlin.de/m ... 202014.pdf

I´m sorry this is in german. I visited a speaking.

Jeff is doing the right thing. He assumes responsibility. Behaviours of animals and the impact on environment can change if we shift them to other locations and this can be dangerous.
No offense meant, Greg. ;)
Civility is strength. http://www.VivaBiene.de

lharder
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Re: What's the Buzz in the Beeyard?

Postby lharder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:13 pm

I think another theory on mean bees is if you mix bees from one population with bees from another, aggressive traits can be revealed because more than one gene is involved in a given trait. This is true of most traits, meaning some chaos is expected when introducing new genetics. Not that it shouldn't be done, just that there are unintended consequences.

For instance, I might be interested in introducing mite mauling into the local population that is missing this trait. Even if the introduced genetics is TF and the host population is TF, the initial outcomes of daughters of introduced stock may be worse and more variable than the originating stocks. But we persist until mite mauling starts appearing in local stock. Then, if it is a useful trait, colonies will be more successful, and we will see a rising proportion of colonies with this trait as we select for survival and production.


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