Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

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Flon18
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Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby Flon18 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:07 am

As I look toward building new equipment this winter. I'm wondering the pros and cons of a 5 frame nuc box that might end up 5 over 5 compared to a ten frame box.

Or ten frame box with deviders.

I'm into standardization of equipment.
Thanks looking forward to your thoughts.

moebees
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby moebees » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:14 am

Deeps or mediums? What is the equipment you are using now for your production hives no? What is your main goal with the nucs? Overwintering?
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

Flon18
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby Flon18 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:48 am

I'm using deeps. Looking to build more for both hives and swarm traps. My question would be geared toward overwintering small startup hives.

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Michael Bush
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby Michael Bush » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:46 pm

Mel Disselkoen is overwintering nucs in a single 10 frame deep with good success. Bees are very adaptable. I think there is probably a slight advantage to the five over five because the cluster fills the width of the boxes. But that's part of what I like about eight frame boxes. I run all the same size boxes. Eight frame mediums. In volume they are the same as a five frame deep. I overwinter most nucs in 8 over 8 (two eight frame medium boxes). I can start nucs and packages in one eight frame medium box and they take off really well.
"Everything works if you let it"--James "Big Boy" Medlin
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moebees
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby moebees » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:52 pm

I agree with MB. As far as overwintering I think 5 over 5 will do just as well as a 10 frame box. There are many Canadian Beeks that overwinter in single 10 frame boxes. The main advantage I see to the 5 frame is in making splits. Putting two or three frames of brood into a 5 frame works better than a 10 frame because there is just too much empty space they cannot cover and defend. But if your main goal is all the same size boxes I would go with whatever you have now and adjust accordingly.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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GregV
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby GregV » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:05 pm

Flon18: you really should specify your area

Overwintering in Northern WI (zone 4) is quite different from overwintering somewhere in AR (zone 7, give/take).
I would not even worry much in AR about how to overwinter - just use what is on hand.

In WI, I would do 5x5 (or 8x8 like MB) to make it tall volume rather than shallow and squat volume (single 10).
With 5x5 tall volume you can manage for the bees to have the stores configured vertically and avoid lateral moves.
With shallow and wide volume you have higher chances force them into lateral moves - better to avoid if winter is cold.

PS: speaking of Michigan (Google says - Mel Disselkoen is in Allegan County, MI) ...
it is quite mild and predictably so in Allegan County, MI due to the lake effect - zone 6 (lots of snow helps too).
always take care to find out the local conditions of any reference before adapting them to yourself.

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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby lharder » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:19 pm

One of the advantages of a 5 over 5 is that that you can put them side by side and they can share each others heat. Also one can add smaller bits of new space to new colonies starting out.

As a minimum I winter nucs in groups of 2 side by side.

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GregV
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Re: Is 5 over 5 better than 10 wide

Postby GregV » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:48 pm

All my nucs are tall (it will be like 6x6 or 7x7 in Lang terms).

Looks like I will do a couple of nucs as stand alone units.
Will do them like on the picture.
NucWintering.jpg
NucWintering.jpg (73.75 KiB) Viewed 136 times


Another pair may go wrapped together
(unless I get around to build another large permanent hive - then will put them in that side-by-side).
20171001_135602_Small.jpg
20171001_135602_Small.jpg (633.96 KiB) Viewed 136 times


Another pair is already sitting in a large wintering box (mini-shed).
They are fine as-is.
I will even take the covers off and just toss some loose blankets on top.


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