Is your expansion successful?

Engaging a mode of expansion is how you keep ahead of mites and breed bees that can handle them. Get in the practice of staying ahead, and avoid the bad habit of always trying to catch up.
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Nordak
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby Nordak » Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:18 pm

Sounds like the ones that are making it are doing it well. That's great news.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:42 am

Nice, Iharder!
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:41 pm

So I had a look again yesterday. Installed the electric chargers, solar panels, cleared snow from some lines. Then looked at clusters. Down to 9 of 16 at my Heffley site and expect to lose a couple more probably. Clusters didn't look that great except for a couple. One was awesome, overflowing with bees. It had 10% mites going into winter.

My nuc site was more promising, Lost one in the last cold snap, but most have really good clusters with 60/66% survival. Good enough that I can't check out their food stores properly. My next day off I will have to take off their insulation so I can do a box weight checks and add some food underneath them if necessary. Still too cold to be removing frames, shaking and brushing bees, but warm enough that they can wander around the hive and take advantage of food close by. They should have enough, but I want to make sure.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:20 pm

Checked the Heffley site yesterday, put protein patties on the strongest. Only 5 or so. A couple of clusters buried deep so didn't bother. Not looking good overall. I may be down to 6 or 7 of 16 by the time winter finishes up. Worse yet is that a gaggle of prominent keepers is going to visit in a weeks time. Luckily they will also be visiting my nuc site with 20 of 30 still kicking with many strong clusters. It won't be a completely gloomy field day.

Thankfully I went into my nucs at home the day previous. 8 of 11 still kicking. They are holding their own with strong orientation flights the other day. I gave them all protein patties to get them going.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby Nordak » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:16 pm

What do you attribute the differences to between yards?

That nuc yard sounds pretty robust. If I read correctly on BS, a one Mr. Palmer may be dropping by? Exciting stuff, lharder. Enjoy.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:11 am

Great!
Enjoy the company! The Kamloops speaking prominence, is it?
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:44 pm

Nordak wrote:What do you attribute the differences to between yards?

That nuc yard sounds pretty robust. If I read correctly on BS, a one Mr. Palmer may be dropping by? Exciting stuff, lharder. Enjoy.


Nicely put together Nordak, but the weather is absolutely crap, barely above freezing, so it may fall apart. I'm feeling thwarted.

Its mostly the age of the colonies. Nucs survive better, lots of 2nd year hives go downhill the end of their 2nd summer. The aspect of the locations is different so that may have influence.

I don't think its a coincidence that most of the colonies that are doing well out there are daughters of my 3 winter survivor who is still looking robust. I have one other monster out there so maybe I will have 2 good queen lines that is starting to separate themselves from the rest of the pack. Meanwhile the Saskatraz stock seems to be fading out of the picture a bit.

I was reading about the Saskatraz stock and it seems they have a fair amount of VSH in them. But I'm guessing that at the scale I'm operating at, if this is recessive, it may get diluted with every generation until it is more widespread in the population. If the traits of my local bee are dominant, and more widespread in the population, then this trait may hold its effectiveness better. It doesn't mean one has to give up on VSH, but more work needs to be done to get that trait established. As I grow, the holding power of various traits may change as my bees will be mostly mating with each other. It does tempt me down the road of some A.I. though.

But I am concerned about the overall trend. I didn't put on robbing screens last year, and considering the outcomes in that yard, I wonder if I should have. Though most had decent clusters going into winter and fell apart then. The other possibility is that they are stressed enough, that they simply couldn't deal with the winter we had. So maybe I need to give them extra protection from the elements to get the survival up a bit. I would be less uneasy if 2nd year hives had a survival of 50 percent rather than 30 percent.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:17 pm

lharder wrote:..... I didn't put on robbing screens last year, and considering the outcomes in that yard, I wonder if I should have...


Based on my observations last year, I will have all my nucs behind the screens at all times and never look back again.
Just so easy to put the screens up as a default feature and keep them on through the entire season.
Then move on to other bigger and better things without daily worry of loosing a nuc to robbers.

Grr.. just lost another nuc.
They ran out of bees due to the attrition and small cluster could not resist yet another cold night.
Just one month left to go.
Down to my last nuc (the best - a very good, late swarm I captured in August).
Keeping fingers crossed.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:46 pm

GregV wrote:
lharder wrote:..... I didn't put on robbing screens last year, and considering the outcomes in that yard, I wonder if I should have...


Based on my observations last year, I will have all my nucs behind the screens at all times and never look back again.
Just so easy to put the screens up as a default feature and keep them on through the entire season.
Then move on to other bigger and better things without daily worry of loosing a nuc to robbers.

Grr.. just lost another nuc.
They ran out of bees due to the attrition and small cluster could not resist yet another cold night.
Just one month left to go.
Down to my last nuc (the best - a very good, late swarm I captured in August).
Keeping fingers crossed.


I've only lost a few nucs due to robbing. This year they were made up during the flow and by the time it stopped, the nucs have built up strong enough to defend their small entrances. When I fed in fall I lost maybe 3 out of 44 to robbing. I just read Seeley's article again about natural ecosystem configuration vs what us beekeepers do. I'm thinking about horizontal transmission of pests and disease and how important it may be, and maybe robbing screens are part of the answer.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby moebees » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:10 pm

I just read Seeley's article again about natural ecosystem configuration vs what us beekeepers do. I'm thinking about horizontal transmission of pests and disease and how important it may be, and maybe robbing screens are part of the answer.


Bingo. And smaller entrances. 9 out of 10 (a number I just made up) beekeepers have way more entrance that bees want or need. But horizontal transmission is huge and is a big part of the mite problem. And it isn't tf beekeepers being robbed by treatement bees. The transmission occurs in the same bee yards and it selects for more virulent disease! So move hives farther apart, make them more unique (color, plant growth, direction) and stop willy nilly movement of frames of brood.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:17 pm

lharder wrote:I've only lost a few nucs due to robbing..


I guess it so happened that all of my nucs came from late swarms/cut-outs last year.
So having a brand new nuc in August in my locality means one thing - robbing.
Late swarms work great (talking a young queen and good bees) - but must be support-fed into wintering and protected against robbing.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:47 pm

GregV wrote:So having a brand new nuc in August in my locality means one thing - robbing.
Late swarms work great (talking a young queen and good bees) - but must be support-fed into wintering and protected against robbing.


Please tell me more about this.
Because of my losses i want to expand again with the survivors but I´m very much afraid of the smaller splits being robbed.
i have no experience with this.
I `m not isolated any more, the situation changed.
How can I protect my nucs from the robbers? the queen less?
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:35 pm

SiWolKe wrote:
GregV wrote:So having a brand new nuc in August in my locality means one thing - robbing.
Late swarms work great (talking a young queen and good bees) - but must be support-fed into wintering and protected against robbing.


Please tell me more about this.
Because of my losses i want to expand again with the survivors but I´m very much afraid of the smaller splits being robbed.
i have no experience with this.
I `m not isolated any more, the situation changed.
How can I protect my nucs from the robbers? the queen less?


Google/youtube: "bees robbing screen" and see what people have done; really easy and effective.
You can do it quickly and cheaply; you can be more thorough as well; you can even buy the screens.

Attached is my ad-hoc screen I fixed up in 5-10 minutes to save a nuc on a spot.
This is after I lost one nuc already to robbing and become a bit more serious about the robbing thing.
Works great, BUT it takes the resident bees 1-3 days to understand how enter the hive.
They must run UP, over the screen, and then DOWN; OR they can do it sideways but the UP/DOWN approach seems to be preferred.

Initially, I had to go out at night and collect my own bees sitting on the screen and just dump them into the hive.
After a couple of days the resident bees became smart since they were very motivated to return home.
The robbers never get smart and never figure this out.
Eventually, they just leave since there is no reward for them.

So, I decided to equip all my nuc hives with a screen as a permanent feature and forget about it.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:20 am

Very good, thanks, GregV.

Is it possible to install it permanently? Or do the robbers learn how to go in too?
We have many wasps in late summer would be nice to make it harder for them.
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Is your expansion successful?

Postby Dustymunky » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:15 am

I have some installed permanently on my queen castles. They got harassed pretty good before I put the screens on. From my understanding the bees go for the smell of the entrance. I think a lot of them give up but the Queenless hives are a big draw for robbers. I have some removable screens for my nucs. I try to have the screen entrance about 3.5" from the hive entrance.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:49 am

Thanks, Dusty, this looks great. Very helpful to me.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:08 pm

Right.
Going forward, I want to pre-make several those screens (similar to Dusty) before hand and ready.
So that they available all the time and onto any new nuc right away as a part of any new box population.

What I have on the picture above is an ad-hoc solution I cooked up on the spot under the robbing pressure (you can tell from the looks).
Prior to that I tried the conventional "reduce the entrance" approach - not great.
The robbers just ram through the hole however small it is. They don't care.
A small nuc is unable to hold them back.
And as we know, the TFB ways live and die with the nucs.
Nuc protection is the top priority.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:06 pm

I was thinking about this and how to make it easy. If the bottom board didn't have an entrance but instead one was drilled into the bottom box (or top), it would be easy to affix a robbing screen permanently. Its changing the way I'm thinking about hive design in an apiary situation.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:39 pm

I have to take away my entrance boards if I use them.

I rather like the boards to watch them and what they pull out, but I can use a board on the ground for that.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:35 pm

SiWolKe wrote:I have to take away my entrance boards if I use them.

I rather like the boards to watch them and what they pull out, but I can use a board on the ground for that.


You can just improvise a little to have it work with the entrance board.
On my picture above, I do actually have an entrance board about 5cm wide.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:55 pm

So a bunch of prominent beekeepers is coming out today to look at my setup including the infamous M. Palmer. Dr. Leonard Foster is also coming out so some good minds will get to interact. I'm curious about what will come of it. Its also snowy and windy so the worst possible weather. We will be doing the final spring assessment of the study group. Heather is determined not to have to come back so onward we go. A few local keepers are also coming out so its going to be interesting. Well my morning coffee is done to its time to get ready.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:07 pm

Looking forward to your story!
:)
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby Nate K » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:28 am

Thought I'd jump in here. Starting at 2016, I had no hives. The 2015 winter killed all of my hives. I went from no hives to over 20 at the peak of summer. I caught anywhere from 1-4 swarms in a week. Some did fantastic and some died off rather quickly, which I realized is the norm.
I took those strong hives and made splits and did pretty well with it. At the end of fall I combined a few hives, and had 11 that were pretty strong but I knew all wouldn't make it.
As of now, I have 5 strong hives still alive. This winter in PA has been killer to them, it warmed up here in February and the maples started to bloom out, a full 4 weeks early, and now its cold again..
All in all, very happy with the expansion, hoping to push to 30-40 hives this year.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:35 pm

Nate K wrote:Thought I'd jump in here. Starting at 2016, I had no hives. The 2015 winter killed all of my hives. I went from no hives to over 20 at the peak of summer. I caught anywhere from 1-4 swarms in a week. Some did fantastic and some died off rather quickly, which I realized is the norm.
I took those strong hives and made splits and did pretty well with it. At the end of fall I combined a few hives, and had 11 that were pretty strong but I knew all wouldn't make it.
As of now, I have 5 strong hives still alive. This winter in PA has been killer to them, it warmed up here in February and the maples started to bloom out, a full 4 weeks early, and now its cold again..
All in all, very happy with the expansion, hoping to push to 30-40 hives this year.


Nate, what is your USDA zone?
Probably close to mine and you made the expansion successful, it looks like.

Here I am sitting on my last nuc and, with any luck, would like make 3-4 hives out of it this summer.
I was told not to do it because our climate is not as forgiving as SP's climate (so the aggressive splitting would not be a good idea).
I was told to just grow my single nuc and make strong (which I compare to building a "unsinkable Titanic" with no redundancy).
Still think a fleet of redundant hives is better than a big "Titanic" hive which just makes for a large target to be torpedoed and sunk.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:27 pm

M Palmer is in zone 4 to give some context of what is possible.

i've heard some interesting presentations on insulating and NO top entrances. I've insulated my nucs with a top entrance in groups of 8 and this year in groups of 2. I had ok survival in spite of the harsh winter for this area. I'm going to experiment with the no top entrance idea, and insulating big hives next year. The colder you are, the more important it is to give your bees more protection. The natural range limit for bees is probably governed by cold temps and the closer you are to this limit, the more chance you will have years of severe loss.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:23 pm

lharder wrote:M Palmer is in zone 4 to give some context of what is possible.

i've heard some interesting presentations on insulating and NO top entrances..


Good to know - "M Palmer is in zone 4".
Then my approaches should work despite of....

About "no top entrance/insulation" - will post here somewhere links to youtube where people run successfully their hives under heavy air/vapor proof plastic/top insulation/no top entrance.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby moebees » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:09 pm

"Titanic" hive which just makes for a large target to be torpedoed and sunk


The Titanic hit an iceberg. It was not torpedoed.
Sam Droege, a biologist for the U.S. Geological Survey—“bees are not optional."

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:20 pm

moebees wrote:
"Titanic" hive which just makes for a large target to be torpedoed and sunk


The Titanic hit an iceberg. It was not torpedoed.

Does not matter much; it sank being "unsinkable".
Lusitania was torpedoed and sank, if that matters.

Basic point is - now days sinking all the resources into few large hives (the old school) is questionable.
Need to be able to winter redundant nucs to stay afloat.

PS: for this year I will be trying to create a "nuc slum" - basically, a bunch of cardboard electronic boxes from trash, inserted into a big single mother-hive; the mother-hive is to protect cardboard from the weather/water; otherwise, the cardboard boxes make excellent small nuc hives (just must protect from water);

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:09 am

I´m not sure about his insulation thing.
M Palmer said to avoid cold pools which I think a good advise.
J Lunden said to overwinter cold and Erik says the same.

And MB says this too, he only insulates by placing tight the nucs and using an unit to warm the queen castles , as I recall, correct me if I´m wrong, Michael.

Maybe just install a windbreak.

The problem is if the hives are insulated they breed at the wrong time. So in canada it is probably good to insulate against warmth of winter sun.
With brood they are more jeopardized by mites (brood break) and isolation from food stores or by a cold spell or they will use too much food and starve.

Erik told me his bees in Sweden ( still snowing there) had made the first cleansing flight some days ago and now are still in winter modus.
They used almost no food until now.
They seem to do ok. He has only bottom entrance with some holes drilled with netting at the bottom, too.

I now am in the same situation as GregV is, having only 4 survivors, I hope they make it, they are still in danger, nectar is sparse and cold spells not over, I still don´t know how the mite situation is and whether the new hatching bees are healthy.

To have more stock to start again I will get 3 more colonies one regressed on small cells and not treated, the same geneticist as my elgons have.
These I will place at the tf yard.

The other two are treated big cells which I want to test at another location and regress, use them for my queens maybe.
So 7 hives again which means the same number of hives going into next winter like 2016, maybe one or two more because with luck I will have one or two swarms from a co-worker who does swarm multiplying.

Too big a split will breed mites.
Too small a split will have no defense.

Sometimes it´s not easy to decide your path as a tf beekeeper... ;)
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby Nordak » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:32 am

I think the key to understanding splits is density. A small hive can be "strong" with a reduced entrance and being heavily populated. My goal is to keep them on that fine line between dense with bees (in relation to comb and volume) and swarming, whatever the hive size. In my area, anything less will result in small hive beetle losses. Such a hive can easily defend against most things. If the hive is easily defensible (small entrance), highly populated and still having defense issues, you need to cull those genetics and find bees capable of mounting defense. I have seen myself a correlation between bees that are defensive toward pests and problems associated with mites/disease. Generally speaking, the more defensive hives have less issues overall from my experience. Don't mistake defense with "mean bees." I think you know what I mean.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:55 am

Nordak wrote:I think the key to understanding splits is density. A small hive can be "strong" with a reduced entrance and being heavily populated. My goal is to keep them on that fine line between dense with bees (in relation to comb and volume) and swarming, whatever the hive size. In my area, anything less will result in small hive beetle losses. Such a hive can easily defend against most things. If the hive is easily defensible (small entrance), highly populated and still having defense issues, you need to cull those genetics and find bees capable of mounting defense. I have seen myself a correlation between bees that are defensive toward pests and problems associated with mites/disease. Generally speaking, the more defensive hives have less issues overall from my experience. Don't mistake defense with "mean bees." I think you know what I mean.


Yes. i know what you mean, I´ve watched this.
It´s wonderful to learn from your experiences and observations just like those of anybody here.
Thanks to all. :)
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:25 pm

SiWolKe wrote:I´m not sure about his insulation thing.......

The problem is if the hives are insulated they breed at the wrong time.


No, they will not.
Remember - insulation works in both directions.
It keeps both warmer AND cooler too.
The main job of insulation is to smooth fluctuations of external temperature (either going UP or DOWN).
Insulation can not keep the insulated space warm or cool forever, but it will slow the rate of change.
This is all you need.

Really, the best comparison I found so far - "winter the bees in the refrigerator".
This pretty much fits the idea of wintering in a large tree with thick wooden walls as well.
This is exactly the ideal target - well insulated space from any external temperature swings (UP or DOWN) and held at about constant 4C/40F.
Insulation does matter in terms of reserve consumption efficiency and proper development timing.

Here - wintering nucs in Manitoba, Canada.
If anyone is to listen about insulation - that would be Canadians and Russians to pay attention to.
http://mbbeekeeping.com/wintering-2-fra ... -manitoba/

I took these ideas and built my own nuc wintering box (i have pictures on this forum) and it works great.
I did not do any electric heating after much thinking - too much dependency on technology is not good either.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:06 pm

SiWolKe wrote:Too small a split will have no defense.


Based on how well the robbing screens work, I am really optimistic about running small nucs.
No concerned much about defending from robbers. Screens work.
Just attach them to all nucs and don't look back. Nothing to lose at all.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:41 pm

GregV:
Remember - insulation works in both directions.
It keeps both warmer AND cooler too.

SiWolKe:
So in canada it is probably good to insulate against warmth of winter sun.


This is what I meant. To keep them cool. Not warm.
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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:01 pm

The presentation I saw was a guy who used temperature sensors and compared insulated with top entrance vs insulated without and the differences were striking. i think with the insulation, the bees can reorganize at any time in relation to food stores. i think the bees also respond to wrapping with tar paper as they have more opportunity to reset in relation to food compared to unwrapped hives.

Also in relation to winter loss, that dribbling of dead bees in the snow during cold weather. When the bees have to work harder, more crap accumulates so you lose more bees to this.

I also heard that the bees could use some moisture in the winter as they can't get out to get any. i would guess that it would condense on the walls lower in the hive instead of above them and would be available to them.

So at my heffley site where i lost so many hives this winter, i'm going to insulate the big hives this year and see what happens. They may need a bit of extra help at that site.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:10 pm

SiWolKe wrote:GregV:
Remember - insulation works in both directions.
It keeps both warmer AND cooler too.

SiWolKe:
So in canada it is probably good to insulate against warmth of winter sun.


This is what I meant. To keep them cool. Not warm.


Then don't doubt yourself and insulate (the tops for sure - 80% of heat loss goes up).
Insulation is the most "no-brainer" thing to do. Nothing to loose.

I, for one, will run the "nuc slum" in the insulated mother-hive in summer too.
Will insulate them from the hot roof for sure and from the sun-exposed walls.

But you also spoke of bees expanding TOO early. That means you are talking of bees too warm too early in spring. So I am unsure.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:13 pm

lharder wrote:When the bees have to work harder, more crap accumulates so you lose more bees to this..

Exactly.
This is only one example why insulation is needed.
Bee can survive despite lack of insulation. But why do it to them?

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:48 pm

lharder wrote:The presentation I saw was a guy who used temperature sensors and compared insulated with top entrance vs insulated without and the differences were striking. i think with the insulation, the bees can reorganize at any time in relation to food stores. i think the bees also respond to wrapping with tar paper as they have more opportunity to reset in relation to food compared to unwrapped hives.

Also in relation to winter loss, that dribbling of dead bees in the snow during cold weather. When the bees have to work harder, more crap accumulates so you lose more bees to this.

I also heard that the bees could use some moisture in the winter as they can't get out to get any. i would guess that it would condense on the walls lower in the hive instead of above them and would be available to them.

So at my heffley site where i lost so many hives this winter, i'm going to insulate the big hives this year and see what happens. They may need a bit of extra help at that site.


That´s really very interesting, Iharder, thanks for sharing.
So they compared the entrance locations in correlation to insulation?
I have only insulated tops.

This all sounds logical. But what with enforcing breeding? Will it do that?
I would like to know how this is influenced or is it not?

If brood brakes really hold at bay the mites I must not prevent them.
Civility is strength. http://www.VivaBiene.de

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby lharder » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Probably there are a number of things that can stimulate brooding in the winter and spring. Daylength, temperature, food stores, food coming in.

i'm guessing that good frugal bees shouldn't produce brood in the winter without food coming in even if it is quite warm. Eventually they should be stimulated by a combination of day length and available food stores in early spring in anticipation of spring flows. Not by winter warmth.

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Re: Is your expansion successful?

Postby GregV » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:40 pm

lharder wrote:Probably there are a number of things that can stimulate brooding in the winter and spring. Daylength, temperature, food stores, food coming in.

i'm guessing that good frugal bees shouldn't produce brood in the winter without food coming in even if it is quite warm. Eventually they should be stimulated by a combination of day length and available food stores in early spring in anticipation of spring flows. Not by winter warmth.


I tried to argue in my local group that black wraps around thin-walled hives are bad exactly due this - "Not by winter warmth".
Bees are given fake messages that the spring is here and now - due to that highly praised "solar gain".
The wraps are fine for the traditional beekeepers as a management tool (say, you want to generate nucs for sale earlier and feed the bees).

If you are TF (including NOT feeding the bees) - stimulation of the bees (by black wraps, for example) too early is not exactly good.
Anyway, I still stand by my idea of the heavily insulated hives where bees only react to steadily raising average temperatures (not daily bounces due to sun heat). I was a lone voice and was over-whelmed by "wrapo-philes". :) Oh well, slow and steady wins the race. :)


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