Russian bees.

Discussions of honeybee genetics, epigenetics, hygiene related genetics, breeding, etc.
User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:05 pm

I have this special interest in what is called "Russian bees" for a number of reasons.
I also may have some special knowledge that others may not have and so will share it along the way.

Unfortunately, I notice over and over that the "Russian bees" are misunderstood, misinterpreted and all kinds of related myths circulate around.
So, I thought this forum maybe a good place to clarify things and debunk the myths.

To get this started, I would like to state this - there is no such thing as "Russian bees".
The term "russian bee" is oxymoron just because this would be the almost same as the term "global bee" (which does not exist).

Current Russia occupies about 1/8 of entire land mass (this is including Antarctica, btw).
Current Russia is about 60% larger than Canada (the second largest country by area).
With this in mind, one must be aware that Russia includes hundreds and thousands various ecological regions with their own local bee populations.

The so called "Russian bee" in the USA is nothing more than a bee coming from small group of localities found in the Far Eastern Russia (close to Japan Sea). To make this even more interesting, the European honey bee species is not even native in that area, never existed there historically, and was only introduced by Russian settles no longer than 200-300 year ago.

A mix of bees from Western Russia, Ukraine and who knows where else was introduced into the Far East region producing this hardy local mutt only found in this locality (pretty big locality at that). Here is google book source that describes this well:
https://books.google.com/books?id=WVh3A ... ia&f=false

lharder
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: Russian bees.

Postby lharder » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:31 pm

And maybe if local raising of bees takes off there will be ecotypes of North American bees eventually.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:53 pm

So after the Apis m. was introduced to the Russian Far East (100-200 year ago), the homesteaders kept the bees with the intent to harvest bee products. They used the beekeeping techniques common at that time (pretty much minimally managed log hives).

Surely, some feral population was established soon thereafter due to normal swarming and naturally dispersed over the landscape. It is logical to assume that Apis m. and Apis cerana collided shortly after the Apis m. introduction and Apis m. was introduced to the Varroa mite. Out of the literature I find that Apis m. is more aggressive that Apis c. to the point of kicking Apis c. out of their own nests and taking them over. So Apis m. gradually took over some of the suitable habitat but at the same time themselves became exposed to a totally new, lethal parasite.

So you have it - mix of some Eastern European bees dropped into new, unfamiliar environment (including new parasites - Varroa mite).
No special treatments, minimal management, not much of human knowledge about the bee pathology at that time.
Naturally, the beekeepers of the time and place did not to do anything or cared much about parasites and disease.
They just carried on with their primitive, swarmy (a good thing!) log hives and did well for themselves.

Short time later (decades, if that?) there was a new honey bee variety that thrived in quite hostile new environment.
Short time later we have this new mite resistant "russian bee" for sale in USA.

Now days, in Russia proper the beekeeping in Far East is known to be very productive in honey due to their local Basswood forests, though under pressure from logging (5 species of Basswood are only found there). They sell lots of honey to Japan.

Interesting thing, but yet not logical to me, is that I so far was not able to find the mite-resistent Far Eastern bees to be for sale in the Western Russia. I see that western-style bee treatments are wide spread in the Western Russia, and yet they sit on their own mite resistent bee right their and not using it it. Unsure what is going on and I want to look at this more...

User avatar
Dustymunky
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 130
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:09 am
Location: Oregon

Russian bees.

Postby Dustymunky » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:00 pm

Greg, interesting information. I am surprised to hear that there were no bees in the Primorsky region of Russia before 200-300 years ago. I have never heard this before and from the article it sounds to me that the author couldn't find any evidence of bees being kept there earlier. Not definitive to me.

From my understanding, honeybees originated in Africa and migrated or were moved by humans outside the continent. Interesting discussion. I'm sure MB has light to shed on this subject.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
flamenco108
Freshman Beekeeper
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:17 am
Location: Konstancin-Jeziorna
Contact:

Re: Russian bees.

Postby flamenco108 » Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:52 am

Dustymunky wrote:Greg, interesting information. I am surprised to hear that there were no bees in the Primorsky region of Russia before 200-300 years ago. I have never heard this before and from the article it sounds to me that the author couldn't find any evidence of bees being kept there earlier. Not definitive to me.

Before Cossack/Ukrainian/Russian settlements there were only Manchu hunters tribes. They didn't keep bees. It was area of intensive fur aquirement by Chinese and Korean merchants. No agriculture. Natively it was the border area for Apis Cerane bees. That's why the Baton Rouge's scientists decided to acquire bees from this area - as they were supposed to have much longer contact with Varroa, counting from times, when no medications were used in beekeeping.

In fact so called in US Russian bees are supposed to be successors of Ukrainian steppe bees Apis mellifera acervorum:

Image

Look at the area covered with diagonal lines. Also notice the permafrost area, that makes really difficult for honey bees to migrate there by themselves.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:35 pm

Dustymunky wrote:Greg, interesting information......


It is.
And to me, these facts should be known by everyone.
Additionally, I am able to read information from the original sources (the losses in translation, so to speak, a massive and are really annoying).

I will keep researching and posting here I guess (since the crowd is receptive here and I like to support Solomon's projects as much as I can)...

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:51 pm

flamenco108 wrote: ..In fact so called in US Russian bees are supposed to be successors of Ukrainian steppe bees Apis mellifera acervorum...


Well, let me quote/translate:
.. the "far-eastern" bees (the "russian bees" in the USA) are a result of random cross-breeding of the Ukrainian, the Mid-Russian, the Gray Caucasian and the Italian bees..

Source: "History of the Far-Eastern Bees"
http://ylejbees.com/index.php/215-istor ... nykh-pchel
(Those who care may google-translate the page and double-check me.)
I think this source summarizes pretty well what the "Russian bees" for sale in the USA truly are.
I also imagine, there is even more variety mixed into the "official mix".
This is because no one ever controls the situation at 100% and the events go unnoticed/unreported/hidden on purpose.
Surely there were bee imports no one ever knew took place.

And so - understand that the so called "Russian bees" in USA and are just some line of mite-resistant hybrids that happen to originate within Russian borders. In fact, I will not be surprised if there exist "Chinese bees" - some mite-resistant honey bees that may exist just across the border in that region, but in China. Why the "Chinese bees" are not for sale yet - don't know. I predict - they will be.

So, the "Russan bees" are just random hybrid bees that built up resistance when slammed by mites.
The Russian Priomriey Region went through the very quick invasion of a mix of random non-native bees races (very, very similar to the USA).
With that being said, the USA as-is can be (and should be) another case where a random mix of various bees should (and WILL) build up natural resistance to the pest. If we let them. A random mix of different lines that exist here is, really, a blessing that way.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:04 pm

lharder wrote:And maybe if local raising of bees takes off there will be ecotypes of North American bees eventually.

I think so.
We have the Primoriey situation on our hands as we speak. Totally.
Except, we are now more aware of the case - thank the Internet.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:11 pm

GregV wrote:..Interesting thing, but yet not logical to me, is that I so far was not able to find the mite-resistent Far Eastern bees to be for sale in the Western Russia. I see that western-style bee treatments are wide spread in the Western Russia, and yet they sit on their own mite resistent bee right their and not using it it. Unsure what is going on and I want to look at this more...


Quoting myself here.
Much to my dismay, it appears as if in Russia proper, they are falling for the industrial western-style bee - treatments.
This is while they have the best resistant hybrids on hand.
They are even trying to treat the resistant bees (to improve the survival, so to speak).

Unfortunately, the western-industrial school has strong influence and washes brains too well.
Really, really annoying.

Quick quote/translation about some German Russian-vs.-Carnica bees comparison study:
...Dr. Rolf Buhler remarked: "Primorie bees have better resistance to the Varroa then Carnica bees. However, they also need anti-mite treatments...

http://ylejbees.com/index.php/380-sravn ... -i-karniki

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:18 pm

flamenco108 wrote:Look at the area covered with diagonal lines. Also notice the permafrost area, that makes really difficult for honey bees to migrate there by themselves.


I contend that the bees would make it their on their own anyway - with time.
Realize that the bees don't know (and don't care) of the state borders ... Hehe.
That would make it there eventually via Mongolia/China.
But humans helped - all too common.

I am really agnostic anymore about humans' moving the species around the globe now days - just how things are now days.
Like it or not - this is just a different epoch in the global evolution; the next global die-off is here and now and nothing we can do.

lharder
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: Russian bees.

Postby lharder » Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:57 pm

Re moving biological material around I think you are probably right. However a few more rules and restrictions would slow the process down and allow more time for adaptation.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:04 pm

Another interesting factoid about the "Russian bees" - they are not really a small cell bees.
I keep finding references that point to a simple fact that while having resistance to the mite, these bee population has no idea what the Small Cell (SC) is. The beekeepers run them on industrial foundation size. At the same time, the feral bees in the Primorie Region are still larger and run closer to normal Apis m. m. sizing.

Here is attached summary of natural sizing of the bee populations of Russia (locality names are in Russian, the numbers show natural cell sizing in millimeters). Notice how the natural sizing in the Primorie region is running about 5.3-5.4mm. Even given for errors measurement methodology and the like factors, the difference is significant enough to consider.

And so the case of the "Russian bees", in fact, does not support that the SC is a necessary part of the mite-resistance equation.
SC may help in some way, but surely bees can be resistant without being on the SC. The "Russian bees" a plenty resistant while being large.

This attached map of cell sizing found across the Russia also shows the regional differences (the northern population are generally larger).
For US situation to ignore this fact and trying to use "one-size-fits-all" SC approach does not sound very logical to me personally due to US's size and variety of micro-climate and micro-ecology niches. The Nature seem to suggest that size differences are needed locality by locality for better survival.
Attachments
NaturalBeeCellSizesInRussia.jpg
NaturalBeeCellSizesInRussia.jpg (42.38 KiB) Viewed 730 times

lharder
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: Russian bees.

Postby lharder » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:47 pm

Its a good reason to be curious about natural comb. The small cell thing seems to be a Lusby thing right? They were in Arizona, so may have made perfect sense in that area.

I'm kind of curious how it will play out. For instance it may be more than just about small cell, but also the bees that happen to make small cell if left to their own devices. Take a bee would make 5.3 on its own, regress them to small cell, and it wouldn't help with varroa. But for some bees that can tolerate varroa, it may be part of their solution. If you forced them on large cell, they may lose part of their resistance.

If small cell is part of the solution, one would expect cell sizes for feral bees to decrease if and when the genes that encode it spread. The question is why do some northern populations prefer larger cell sizes. Perhaps there are competing fitness agendas that prevent small cell from gaining traction.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:06 pm

lharder wrote:Its a good reason to be curious about natural comb.......


I have a feeling that bees need not be to forced to ANY size (big or small).
This boils down to artificial standardization which is not natural and only serves human needs and convenience.
So again, we are here TF beeks, and yet we "treat" the bees with this artificial standardization treatment called "standard foundation".
A standard foundation just does not belong in the hive (it maybe less convenient for the beekeeper - true).

Who is to say WHAT size is to be normal for a particular hybrid bee population?
No one is.
SC is just another "magic bullet" humans are proposing.
Another quick fix "pill" if you will. The long-term side-affects of it to be yet understood.

Some hybrids will want to build the cell size smaller, others - bigger.
This is depending on what the original inputs were into those hybrids and also the given locality selective pressure (the northerners seem to prefer to build bigger, by Lusby's own observations - there must a good natural reason for this).

At the same time some hybrids will be more mite-resistant; other hybrids - less mite-resistant.
Some of the resistance traits MAY or MAY NOT intersect with the cell size traits.

This is entire search for standardization all wrong I feel (standard SC is just another demonstration of that human trend).
The best natural cell is what the bees build without one artificial suggestions from some ignorant humans (who don't know any better but think too much of themselves, to be totally honest).
Anyway, I am rambling off-topic a bit.

So again, the "Russian bee" mite-resistance is just a normal, natural resistance that built-up over time to some selective pressure (a new pest, in this case). Whatever the cell size these "russian" hybrids prefer to build is probably less important, in my view.
The cell size and mite-resistance trends may not be totally orthogonal but yet they do not totally converge either.
The degree of convergence no one really understands, IMO.
But for sure the "russians" do not build 4.9mm cell; they build larger cell, 5.0+mm.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:18 am

More factoids about the "Russian bees" of Primorie Region...

In actuality, the two distinct sub-populations exist: grey (G) and yellow (Y).

The G bees are located in the more northern areas - closer to the City of Habarovsk;
by the genetic make up, these have more of Apis m.m. (Dark German/Russian) bee in them;
the G bees are purely grey;
the G are more winter-resistent but less productive in honey production (due to their delayed spring development - which is less risky, however);
the G appear to be more aggressive (which is consistent with German/Russian bee heritage)

The Y bees located in the more southern areas - closer to City of Vladivostok;
by generic make these have more Apis m. l. (Italian) bee in them;
the Y bees have 2-4 yellowish rings on the abdomen;
the Y are more productive in honey production as they explode more early in the spring (which also makes them less winter-resistent due to this more risky trait)

As noted before, there are also Grey Caucasians, and Ukrainian and Carpathians, and possibly some Carnies in the mix also, in various proportions (and who knows what else is in there). I am not sure yet which of the two sub-population produced the lines sold in the USA as "Russian bees".
To be found out...

PS: the proper Russian bee (called Mid-Russian) is actually exactly the same as Dark German bee;
the proper Russain bee is Apis mellifera mellifera and not the same as "Russian bee" sold in the USA (a misleading marketing brand, really);
However, the heritage Dark German bees of the US past *are*, in fact, the same as the Russian bees of mainland Russia.

the classification of the bees of Primorie Region is undefined in the Russia as we speak;
there are talks to create a brand new official subspecies per what I read somewhere;
but right now, these are just that - bees of Primorie Region of undefined scientific nomenclature status.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:11 am

Sounds like the "Russian bees" originate from the Lazovskij District at the southern end of the region (see map).
The particular location is a rough triangle that can be sized as 50mi x 50mi x 50mi.

Even though it is said that southern bees are somewhat yellow and northern bees are grey, this particular southern population is actually dark grey.
This particular bee is said to be so unique that there are talks of making a special reserve to keep them pure (I suspect this has to do with the mite-resistance).

The "pure" part is kind of ironic because ALL bees here are mutts. There are no "pure" bees in traditional sense to speak of.
But hey, any particular mutt can be also pure at the same time - up to a person to make that call based on whatever criterion.

Another interesting factoid that this bee is said to have been exposed to the mite for about 50 years only (officially, that is).
Unofficial exposure time line and the scale could be quite different, however.
I personally have little trust to any "official" statements.
Attachments
LazovskijDistrict.png
LazovskijDistrict.png (239.03 KiB) Viewed 674 times

User avatar
SiWolKe
Hobbyist
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:36 am
Location: South Germany

Re: Russian bees.

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:15 am

GregV
I have a neighbour ( a russian) who claims to have Primorski bees.
They are looking like that:
the dark bee in the middle.
Do you think he is right? We have no ferals around.

Last year he lost all his foragers to me because they wanted to join my hive, as you can see in the pict.
After some time the hive had 1/3 more bees but some weeks later no blacks anymore. No robbing.

The hive died this winter, but not because of the infestation of mites. They were isolated from stores.

dunkle Biene.jpg
dunkle Biene.jpg (506.13 KiB) Viewed 669 times
Civility is strength. http://www.VivaBiene.de

User avatar
Michael Bush
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 11:34 am
Location: Nehawka, Nebraska
Contact:

Re: Russian bees.

Postby Michael Bush » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:42 pm

The Russian bees are not very uniform so color is difficult to use to say, but they do tend to be dark bees.
"Everything works if you let it"--James "Big Boy" Medlin
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:18 pm

Michael Bush wrote:The Russian bees are not very uniform so color is difficult to use to say, but they do tend to be dark bees.


Like I have been trying to convey here by this topic (specially created for this) - the "Russian bees" for sale in the USA are just mutts that include many lines/breeds/traits (only a percentage of which is Apis mellifera mellifera). It is normal for them to not be uniform in color - naturally.

Moreover, there are officially exist two distinct sub-population of Primorskij bees - grey bees and yellow bees (I explained above).
Obviously, there are exist other less distinct sub-populations as well (village by village, valley by valley, if you will).
The true heritage Russian bee is equivalent to true heritage German bee - Apis mellifera mellifera.

A curios fact : the Primorskij region by area very close to Wisconsin (where I am now) - 64000 sq. miles vs. 65000 sq. miles.

However, the Primorskij region in more diverse ecologically and has three main ecological niches - forested highlands, savanna lowlands, and marine areas (next to the Pacific). And so the entire ecosystem, including the bees, mostly conforms to those main systems. The highlands act as a natural dividers between many small local ecosystems. The Primorie region is very unique this way. This where harsh Siberian nature collides with subtropical nature coming up shore from China. The land of bears, wolves, tigers and leopards all in one place.

At the same time, by sheer latitude, there exist distinct North and South of the region (even more than in Wisconsin since the region is stretched more) - the climate and nature differences are very significant by this context as well. So, the entire area is setup nicely to support a large soup of various bee populations in close proximity.
Last edited by GregV on Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:01 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:26 pm

SiWolKe wrote:GregV
I have a neighbour ( a russian) who claims to have Primorski bees.
They are looking like that:
the dark bee in the middle.
Do you think he is right? We have no ferals around......


Maybe.
Or maybe that dark bee just a very old bee.
You do know that old bees become darker I assume (by loosing much of their hair)?

Let me make a statement here that most Russian beekeepers do not understand this Primorski bee issue themselves.
They just are as uninformed as most US beekeepers.

I personally grew on my Dad's bee yard and we ran the typical Russian bees common to that particular location (not the Primoriski bees - to be clear).
Those bees on your picture around that dark bee would also fit the Russian bee appearance just fine (if my eyes any good and picture is accurate).

User avatar
SiWolKe
Hobbyist
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:36 am
Location: South Germany

Re: Russian bees.

Postby SiWolKe » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:02 pm

Interesting!
No they were not old ones, I think. My old carnis are slimmer, have no hairs and tattered wings.

Too many of them the same time and I have had 8 colonies to compare in the same yard, this was the only hive they wanted to go. When they appeared they seem to me like robbers. They got bitten and groomed by the carnis but then let in. No real fighting. Old queen still present and not stressed.
Honey stores doubled in two weeks.
For some weeks I saw them, then no more.
Civility is strength. http://www.VivaBiene.de

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:37 pm

SiWolKe wrote:Interesting!
No they were not old ones, I think. My old carnis are slimmer, have no hairs and tattered wings.

Too many of them the same time and I have had 8 colonies to compare in the same yard, this was the only hive they wanted to go. When they appeared they seem to me like robbers. They got bitten and groomed by the carnis but then let in. No real fighting. Old queen still present and not stressed.
Honey stores doubled in two weeks.
For some weeks I saw them, then no more.


Well, sounds like the source hive was in some distress and so the bees were absconding that and flying away, and some of those bees came to you and picked their favorite hive. Also, clearly, few weeks thereafter all the newcomers died - they only had few weeks to live. Hence - no more dark bees.

lharder
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: Russian bees.

Postby lharder » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:51 pm

Supposedly I have some of those genetics in my apiary. Mutts that bred with different mutts to produce my mutts.

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:25 pm

lharder wrote:Supposedly I have some of those genetics in my apiary. Mutts that bred with different mutts to produce my mutts.

Mutts are great!
With bees, this idea of getting "pure" breed is a nonsense (like talking of pure Russian bees for sale here in the USA is nonsense).
Those Russian bees for sale are for the uninformed.

Regardless of how praised they are, you are going to drop them into totally different climate, surroundings, flora, flow dynamics from what they were build for by their local selection process in the Priomorie region of Russia. For sure NOT for Luisiana or Texas.

Then we hear all kinds of conflicting stories of how angry (or mild), swarmy (or not), resistant (or not so much), productive (or not) they are.
I say ignore them (UNLESS you get them for free, of course; FREE bees of any color are good always).

I say - propagate your own local mutts that are best adapted to your own particular backyard and prosper.
This is what I am planning to do, with any luck.
I have no idea what my two swarms on hand are made from (one queen is marked; the other is not) - I will just try to propagate the hell out of them and see what happens.
I will make my own "Russian bees". No no, I will make my own "Wisconsin bees".

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:42 pm

One thing that also bugs me is this...
The Primorie Region of Russia roughly maps to USDA hardiness zones 3, 4 and 5 at once (spoke of diversity already and grey/yellow bee locations).
They (USDA scientists) pickup the bees and drop them to Louisiana of all places (that is about zone 10-11?).
Then they come up with all kinds of conclusions while moving the bees about 5 USDA hardiness zones from their native hardiness zone (forget the other ecology and climate differences). Unsure how this can be treated as a good experiment setup and why no one ever talks about it.
Those Russian bees should have been setup for testing in Wisconsin's Door county - that would be more appropriate.
Just thought to mention before forgotten.
Attachments
russia-kazakhstan-plant-hardiness-zone-map.jpg
russia-kazakhstan-plant-hardiness-zone-map.jpg (389.16 KiB) Viewed 635 times

User avatar
GregV
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:14 pm
Location: Dane Co., WI, USA

Re: Russian bees.

Postby GregV » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:58 am

Few videos about wild bee beekeeping in South Ural Region of Russia (Bashkorostan):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmiYte9AfyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz-noq9rPbs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svE2P4wpouU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-5zf_DBx8Q

(with English sub-titles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xj6ZbKl4PJ4

No need to understand the talk, you should see what is going on
These are pretty much true AMM bees, as pure as they can be today.
There were genetic studies that confirmed several localities of virtually no mixing going on of AMM with the others.

lharder
Backyard Beekeeper
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 6:36 pm
Location: Kamloops, BC

Re: Russian bees.

Postby lharder » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:09 pm

I'll come back and watch some of those. Thanks.


Return to “Honeybee Genetics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest