Trap out advice

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bigtreemover
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Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:10 am

First year Beek. Thanks to all for showing me the light on treatment free!

I have a trap out going in a tree with a feral hive. All of the entrances are blocked with the exception of a short 1 1/2 inch tube that goes into a standard hive attached to the tree. I had installed a bee escape on the tube and after a day the bees got used to using the box entrance. The next day I put in a frame of eggs and brood with a queen cell. The bees calmed down quite a bit and seem to cover the frame and started hauling in pollen the next day.
The problem I have noticed is a lot of fighting at the entrance and possibly the bees coming out of the tube. During the day bees are being dragged out or turned away at the entrance. I'd say about 10%.
I checked on them this evening and all was quiet. Plenty of bees inside covering the brood frame. Obviously I'm way over my head. Any suggestions? Will it work itself out? It's only day 3
Thanks

bigtreemover
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:12 am

Image

bigtreemover
Freshman Beekeeper
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:55 am

Drones!
Today I went out to check the trap out and noticed the trunk of the tree was covered with tons of bees. On closer inspection they are almost all drones? Hundreds of them just hanging out by the old entrance. Worker bees continued to come and go in and out of the trap hive.
I assume they all came from the original hive but why would they all come out at once? Would they get kicked out with no food coming in?
Image

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COAL REAPER
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby COAL REAPER » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:00 am

I would say the new box doesnt have the resources to support them.
Do you still see fighting?
TF since 2010, successfully since 2013. Trying to increase without totally giving up honey crop.

bigtreemover
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: RE: Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:12 am

COAL REAPER wrote:I would say the new box doesnt have the resources to support them.
Do you still see fighting?

The guard bees at the entrance are still fighting with around 10% of the workers coming back.

The new box has very little resources. I hate to say this here but I put in a jar of syrup and a pollen pattie as I didn't feel my other hives (all new this spring) could spare any frames of honey or pollen yet.

I'm just blown away by the number of drones. Looking in the hive tonight there are maybe 2-3 frames of workers in the hive. Here's a picture of most of the drones outside. The ratio seems off and I didn't see any drones outside yesterday. I'm guessing they got kicked out of both hives this morning?
Image
Only thing I could do different is to remove the bee escape so they could return to the tree?

Do you think I should wait a week before doing any kind of inspection? Should I use smoke?

Thanks
Ash

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COAL REAPER
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby COAL REAPER » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:45 am

i dont have enough experience with trapouts to say much definitively. i have only done one, didnt use a queen cell or feed and i was able to get the queen in my hive. this was in a block wall for an office building.
what are your goals for performing this trapout?
thery dont need feed asthey are not raising brood yet with the queen cell just put int here. let them get out and work for it. actually i have never heard of putting a queen cell in as you have.
a little smoke shouldnt bother them but there is no need to inspect if you are not going to do anything. again, what are goals/expections/reasons for this trapout?
TF since 2010, successfully since 2013. Trying to increase without totally giving up honey crop.

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Tyson Kaiser
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby Tyson Kaiser » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:13 pm

I've done many trap outs and I can't really see your set up well, are you attempting a Hogan trap out, to try and save the queen? If so, it's complicated and leaky. I just provide new genetics in the form of two frames of my nicest bee's eggs to build a new queen with. Once any bees leaves they can't get back in and must use the bait hive. I make an exclusion cone with mesh and leave an exit big enough for only drones, they never find the exit again to get back in.
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bigtreemover
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:09 pm

I think I've gore the drones figured out. The bees found a way back into the tree big enough for the workers but not the drones.
Also explains why the colony in the trap hive had not grown the last couple of days? I wonder if the trap hive has its own identity now and no longer recognize the few bees coming in from the tree hive. Maybe that's what all the fighting is about?

My goals/expectations/reasons would be to increase my apiary. I'd love to get some survivor genetics as well. I've read that getting the queen to come and set up shop in the box can happen but that if it's very unlikely. I put the frame of eggs and brood and queen cell (may have just been a queen cup) thinking they would get a jump start on raising there own queen and also to get them to stay in the box.

My intuition tells me to check the box in a couple of days. If there are caped queen cells I should put this little colony in a nuc. Seal up the leaks. And start over with another frame of eggs? What do you all think?

bigtreemover
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Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 10:30 am
Location: Parker, CO

Re: RE: Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:16 pm

Tyson Kaiser wrote:I've done many trap outs and I can't really see your set up well, are you attempting a Hogan trap out, to try and save the queen? If so, it's complicated and leaky. I just provide new genetics in the form of two frames of my nicest bee's eggs to build a new queen with. Once any bees leaves they can't get back in and must use the bait hive. I make an exclusion cone with mesh and leave an exit big enough for only drones, they never find the exit again to get back in.

The setup I have is a covered screened bottom board, a 3 inch spacer with the tube coming in the back. The funnel is inside the hive. On top of that is a medium 10 frame box, an inner cover with a jar of syrup over the hole. An empty medium box and a telescoping cover. The last don't line up because of a knot in the tree but the inner cover still seals the brood box effectively.

Also want to thank you guys for your help!

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Tyson Kaiser
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Re: RE: Re: Trap out advice

Postby Tyson Kaiser » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:25 pm

bigtreemover wrote:The setup I have is a covered screened bottom board, a 3 inch spacer with the tube coming in the back. The funnel is inside the hive. On top of that is a medium 10 frame box, an inner cover with a jar of syrup over the hole. An empty medium box and a telescoping cover. The last don't line up because of a knot in the tree but the inner cover still seals the brood box effectively.


Sounds complicated. I do trap outs with nothing but a cardboard nuc box, some way to hold it up to a tree, and the exclusion cone. Everything else just seems complicated and leaky to me.
TF beekeeper and professional remover in Los Angeles. :)
http://www.tysonkaiser.com PM me off list!

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COAL REAPER
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby COAL REAPER » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:57 am

Also, by placing the queen cell you are not getting the genetics of the bees in the tree.
If the bees are not bothering anything by living in that tree, why not just put up swarm traps around it? Or do the hogan trap till you get the queen and then remove it so the bee tree can continue on. That way you always have a source of more bees when needed. Suposedly when you put a frame of open brood in the hogan setup you can check it a day or two later and the queen is sometimes there checking up on who is laying on her turf.
TF since 2010, successfully since 2013. Trying to increase without totally giving up honey crop.

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brothermoo
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby brothermoo » Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:24 am

I hit jackpot yesterday with two calls of bees that arrived as swarms years ago. One is in a chimney and the other under a flat roof. They have been resident for 3 and 5 years respectively so these are survivors! I'm not sure if trap out is the way to go with both.. I may use a bee vacuum and get them into my bee pool of genetics sooner this season.
I positioned a swarm box (dimensions as per tom Seeley research) nearby in the interim until I decide how to go about it.

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bigtreemover
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby bigtreemover » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:33 am

Brothermoo, that's awesome. Best of luck to you. I'd like to hear what you end up doing and how it goes.

I ended up removing the frames and bees in the trap to a nuc box. They have around 8 capped queen cells and some pretty good stores.
The fighting stopped at the entrance right away after removing the frames with the bees on them. It's been a week and I've been chasing the bees with steel wool as they have found another way into the tree a couple times.
I added a partial frame of young larvae hoping to collect some more bees to put together some Nuc's to add the Virgin queens to. Is that practical and can I do that without adding any more brood?
Also, I would like breed the queens nearby. Hoping to get some of the genetics of the tree hive. They have been there for a couple of years and have been pretty gentle considering all the messing about I've been doing without smoke.
Any suggestions?

SheldonAndrews
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby SheldonAndrews » Sat May 07, 2016 12:59 pm

Bee infestation is an serious issue. It is very important for you to get rid of bees as soon as possible.Look for the service provider that can offer you with professional bee exterminator in CT, AZ, NY,etc.

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Michael Bush
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Re: Trap out advice

Postby Michael Bush » Sun May 08, 2016 10:24 pm

...and here is the guy who is offering to kill your bees for you again...
"Everything works if you let it"--James "Big Boy" Medlin
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm


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