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Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:33 pm
by GregV
Since we now have more areas to talk hives, I figure I throw this in:
http://horizontalhive.com/how-to-build/ ... yens.shtml

This is a latest addition to Dr. Leo's Layen's hive project - process of conversion from Lang system to Layen's system.
Now, this is a great case why I chose to go for Dadant frame size vs. the Layen's frame size.
Go to that page and see the instructions starting:
Step 7. If you transfer MEDIUM Langstroth frames,.........


Just look at the picture and you see how perfectly two medium Lang frames tied together fit as-is.
They are just a tad too tall for the Layen's hive.
I realized this last year when I was thinking which way to start building my own equipment.
Why bother myself with so much extra work to go to Layens system when two Lang meduims tied together is what I need - a Dadant frame turned 90 degrees. Never looked back. Lang medium frames are plentiful and cheap in the US to just recycle them into Dadant frames.

Unfortunately, Dr. Leo moved into the Layen's system when all he really needed was vertical Dadant system instead (common in Poland and Ukraine, btw). Nothing wrong with the Layen's system, but it is just a harder way to get to, basically, the same great hive suitable for Northern Region, USA.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:08 pm
by Rurification
When you tip the frames sideways, aren't the cells tilting the wrong direction then? Do the bees care?

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:28 pm
by GregV
Rurification wrote:When you tip the frames sideways, aren't the cells tilting the wrong direction then? Do the bees care?


You correctly noticed that the existing cells will turn at 90 degrees (and will tilt sideways vs. upwards).

Per my experience, bees will use such cells still just fine. In fact, my bees keep using the 90 degree turned cells for brooding right now even though they have other choices too. I would not turn the cells 180 degrees (upside down), but anything within 90 degrees of the original tilt should be fine it seems. If you look at natural combs (say, a cut-out) their tilt varies widely and hardly ever is perfectly upwards.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:35 pm
by Michael Bush
Back in the late 1800s the Heddon hive was popular. It had reversible frames (you could flip the comb upside down) and reversible boxes (you could clamp the frames and flip the box upside down). The bees used it fine and it was a popular technique that was often discussed in the bee journals of the time.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:08 pm
by GregV
Michael Bush wrote:Back in the late 1800s the Heddon hive was popular. It had reversible frames (you could flip the comb upside down) and reversible boxes (you could clamp the frames and flip the box upside down). The bees used it fine and it was a popular technique that was often discussed in the bee journals of the time.


I was not aware.
This case also, basically, shows that turning combs at 90 degrees is just fine.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:06 pm
by flamenco108
Turning frames is quite obvious technique in Poland, when one wants to move from one frame dimension to another. I did it just several weeks ago and bees didn't object. Now they thrive on new frames and old comb is still the center of the nest.
I have also seen the movie on youtube, about round-frames-beehive from Russia. The beekeper uses turning the drum with frames at 180' to prevent swarming.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:15 pm
by GregV
OK, things are finally slowed down enough for me.
Garden/orchard work done for now.

First - a camping trip is needed to give the kids some break. :D
Then time to build at least two new mobile hives (I have these two large swarms sitting in temp plywood boxes).
I just scored 80-90 nice wooden Lang medium frames - all for free!
Perfect for my growing operation.

I will post few progress pic there and here about my vertical Dadant horizontals.
Here are few from my original mobile 16-framer.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:20 pm
by GregV
I really mean my hives to be mobile and easily movable by a standard vehicle using a standard luggage carrier.
Idea is to be able to manage several separate, remote sites with few hives each.
The hives can be left unattended for long stretches of times (including year around).
Robust, well insulated, uni-body type construction is needed.
There is enough space under the cover ("attic") for additional 10-frame Lang medium super (for summer) or for plenty of top insulation (in winter).
Lockable too.

Re: Rant about Layens hive.

Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:04 pm
by Rurification
Sweet setup!