permaculture

[SiWolKe]

Anybody interested in permaculture?

https://permacultureprinciples.com

[Michael Bush]

I have been since the 70s...

[SiWolKe]

I have been since the 70s...

No surprise to me, Michael, after our mail exchange.

I´m starting next spring with planting a garden as my own first part of "lasting living" and I want to keep some chickens.
I concluded one of my two jobs to do a little downshifting after 34 years in industry.

My problem is the many deer and wild hogs and rabbits. Any idea how to protect the garden in a friendly way?

[Michael Bush]

Deer are tough without fences. A double fence works pretty well for deer, but it's usually not practical to fence everything. Rabbits are tougher. I don't think there really is any such thing as a rabbit proof fence. Dogs tend to keep the population down and chase some of them off. Also keeps the deer away somewhat, but only if the dog has free run of the place... I usually have hawks and owls around and that tends to keep the rabbits under control.

I've bought some deer repellent and it works somewhat if you keep it refreshed.

[SiWolKe]

I've bought some deer repellent and it works somewhat if you keep it refreshed.

What`s deer repellent? Is it the fluid you use to paint on trees?

[Michael Bush]

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01 ... UTF8&psc=1
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

[SiWolKe]

Thanks Michael.
Yes it´s that fluid and pellets you are able to buy here, too.
Ok, let´s see:

My dogs are both 13.5 years old so it is quite within the bounds of probability for them to have tea with the rabbits and deers.
The dogs and chicken will live at my home but the garden will be at my apiary.

I would like to have a hedge made out of whitehorn which would be nice for the bees, too. But how high must that be?
It will need 3 years to grow...no matter..... the berries and leaves are good medicine, too...and I can make a lot of cuttings now.

The repellent would be necessary for the rabbits which would love the hedge....but there are some hawks and owls and fox.

My neighbor keeps sheep, I can use a double fence with the sheep between....but they are not always there.

Are there any plants the animals don´t like except herbs? Maybe sweet corn, beans and squash growing it like the natives did.

[Michael Bush]

> But how high must that be?

For deer? more than six feet... But a double fence works better. With two fences four feet apart the deer are afraid to try the first one.

http://pss.uvm.edu/ppp/articles/deerfences.html

Yes, deer repellent will scare off the rabbits as well...

[SiWolKe]

Nice exchange!
I never thought I would learn so much about fencing! You´re a walking encyclopedia, Michael! Wonderful!
I like that:

Out of sight, out of mind, applies to deer with solid wooden fences, or ones with overlapping slats they can't see through. Such privacy fences are quite effective, as deer can't tell what is on the other side. Even if they can smell what is on the other side, and it's attractive to them, they can't be sure that danger isn't lurking there as well.

Combined with a hedge this will be great! There is a path used by game between the bees and the future garden ,thisI will leave out.
Many thanks!

[SiWolKe]

Watching the bees for me, she does...

IMAG0009.jpg (76.99 KiB) Viewed 424 times

[Nordak]

Great pic. Thanks for sharing.

[SiWolKe]

I cancelled my garden project to the advantage of the bees.

My neighbor changed the rural area to pastural agriculture, not much left for the bees, except some fields.

My property was partly leased to him so I took it back and planted bushes for the bees to forage on.
On the place I wanted to use for my garden I planted wild cherry trees.

All in all we planted over a hundred of bushes and trees now.

One part of it I want to plow and use for seeding flowers.
I have no plow so I have to search for someone to do it for me.

[GregV]

..One part of it I want to plow and use for seeding flowers.
I have no plow so I have to search for someone to do it for me.

Don't bother plowing.
Use bomb seeding (seed balls).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_ball

[GregV]

BTW, let me plug my favorite permaculture site:
https://permies.com

Lots of good stuff on most any topic around sustainable homesteading.

Look for the bee area under the "Critters" (bees are not that big on the site, but are present and ongoing).
I am registered there and read often (even post sometimes and even get moderated).

[GregV]

.. I don't think there really is any such thing as a rabbit proof fence..

Actually is.
Simple step-over #2 wire fence works for me.
I was getting desperate and finally broke down and did it.
This step-over fence is 90-95% rabbit proof ( OK- not 100% proof; some baby rabbits get through now and then, still - no longer critical damage takes place). I now grow green beans again - not a problem anymore. Will be my 3rd season now after the fence installed.

Also, all my fruit trees are wrapped with #2 wire screens.
This is mandatory to protect your investment and protect the trunk as best as possible.
If voles/rabbits girdle the tree trunk - the tree is gone.
A male deer could also damage the trunk badly.

Otherwise, I care less of the deer, they only bite off some twigs.
The tree will live on, as long as the trunk is protected.

[SiWolKe]

Hey, great links to study when I have more time thanks, Greg.

Wolf-Dieter Storl is a kind of "guru" to me for years now, I have read all his books and met him on a foraging trip, we et plants you would never dream of being edible.
https://www.storl.de

Wild plants are sacred to me so I let them grow wherever they want, even in my flower pots at home.

[SiWolKe]

The seed balls I will try.
I collected many seeds from plants I saw used by bees over the year and can do the seed balls myself.
Wonderful idea!

[GregV]

The seed balls I will try.
I collected many seeds from plants I saw used by bees over the year and can do the seed balls myself.
Wonderful idea!

Yes!
I just found about the "seed balls" last year from the local bee club.
I had no idea.
This is so easy to do - silly NOT to do it.

[trekmate]

The seed balls I will try.
I collected many seeds from plants I saw used by bees over the year and can do the seed balls myself.
Wonderful idea!

Seed bombs are also good for turning wasteland into something productive.... with the permission of the owner of course!

[SiWolKe]

deleted by SiWolKe

post is here:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=998